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View Full Version : Timothy McVeigh : Let him fry??



Halation
06-08-2001, 05:33 PM
Do you support state-santioned execution of a human life?

S&SFAN
06-08-2001, 06:02 PM
Yes.

Tom Zeliff
06-08-2001, 06:08 PM
For me it depends on what they have been convicted of. In this case, yes I do.
<BR>
<BR>-Tom

Tim Santa Cruz
06-08-2001, 07:04 PM
<BR>I think our justice system needs a little work. But in McVeighs case, I'm all for it.

Smoky
06-08-2001, 07:05 PM
Send him to Dr. Jack Kevorkian before Monday so that way I won't have to sit through every network turning to a "live" special event of him being executed.
<BR>
<BR>In response to your question: no, if he wants to die, let him take his own life.

Sir Willow
06-08-2001, 07:40 PM
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<BR>On 2001-06-08 17:33, Halation wrote:
<BR>Do you support state-santioned execution of a human life?
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<BR>
<BR>Sure sounds like you aren't by the way that you put that. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
<BR>
<BR>As for whether or not I'm in favor of Capital punishment, or the death penalty, for the most egregious of criminals who have no chance of rehabhilitation, and who if given the chance would commit crimes as bad or worse than what they are already guilty of- then you bet I am!
<BR>
<BR>Interesting- you realize that countries with a death penalty for dealing or possessing illegal drugs don't have the drug problems we do? Just food for thought...

DrachenFire96
06-08-2001, 07:50 PM
I am an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" kind of person. If you murder someone intentionally, I say you should be put down. If you steal, I say lose your hand. If you commit sexual crimes...well you get the picture. If our justice system was a little stronger I would think there would be less crime because I am sure no one wants their hand hacked off for stealing a 20 dollar CD or a carton of cigarettes.

Halation
06-08-2001, 08:18 PM
"Sir Willow", how can you possiby be for the death penalty in one breath and say "with God" in the next?
<BR>-There is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that capital punishment is a deterrent to crime.
<BR>-Why can't people admit it's all about REVENGE!!
<BR> " WHY DO WE KILL PEOPLE TO SHOW THEM THAT KILLING PEOPLE IS WRONG???"
<BR>- Because it's REVENGE , REVENGE, REVENGE!!!
<BR>
<BR>We are doomed to have a mindset that is stuck in the 3rd century.
<BR>
<BR>Do you people think we are ever going to EVOLVE past this insanity?
<BR>
<BR>

RollerCoasterer
06-08-2001, 08:33 PM
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<BR>On 2001-06-08 19:50, DrachenFire96 wrote:
<BR>I am an "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" kind of person. If you murder someone intentionally, I say you should be put down. If you steal, I say lose your hand. If you commit sexual crimes...well you get the picture. If our justice system was a little stronger I would think there would be less crime because I am sure no one wants their hand hacked off for stealing a 20 dollar CD or a carton of cigarettes.
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<BR>Thats what I think.

Sir Willow
06-08-2001, 09:57 PM
Umm, Halation, how about stopping the anti-God attacks already. Your shouting, screaming, and other ridiculous diatribes only make yourself look bad.
<BR>
<BR>As for how I can support the death penalty and still claim to love God, it's pretty easy. From the begining murder was not condoned by God. If you agree with the Bible (obviously you don't, but don't get started), then you would agree that God is the one that initially sanctioned the death penalty for murder, as well as a host of other crimes.
<BR>
<BR>And while He offers forgiveness in eternity if you ask for it, it does not remove the Earthly consequences of your sin. You commit a crime there are consequences that have to be faced, like it or not.
<BR>
<BR>Let me try another area for you- one that's not "religious". I don't like the idea of a guy getting a free ride for 60 years at $40,000/year (or more) taxpayer expense when he went out and killed people. If their victimes have been denied the right to life, why should they be allowed to have the rest of theirs free?

Iceman
06-08-2001, 10:49 PM
Halation, if it was your daughter in the building when he blew it apart, you'd have a whole different opinion. Of course it's about revenge. It's about an eye for an eye. IF you don't prove to people that there's a punishment to be had, they have no reason not to commit crime. I'm all for elminating the death penalty, and piling all of our inmates into the island of New York with no food or exercise machines or security guards. That would have a much bigger impact than any death sentence ever would.

Kraken
06-08-2001, 11:03 PM
Top Ten ways they should kill Timothy McVeigh
<BR>
<BR>10. Blow him up with the same type of bomb he blew up those children with.
<BR>
<BR>9. Have him Quartered by Horses
<BR>
<BR>8. Put him in a small room with nothing in it, just walls painted black, by himself, with a small slit in the roof for people to drop bread and water in. leave him until he goes insane.
<BR>
<BR>7. Put him in a room filled with angry Killer Bees.
<BR>
<BR>6. Put him next to a gigantic speaker and play high frequency sounds at max volume.
<BR>
<BR>5. Make him jump naked into a swimming pool filled with double-edged razor blades
<BR>
<BR>4. Put him in a room with pictures of the corpses of the children he killed, and let him starve
<BR>
<BR>3. Drop him into a vat of acid
<BR>
<BR>2. Pretend to let him go, and give him a convertable to drive away with. Strech piano wire across the road at neck level.
<BR>
<BR>1. Make Timothy chop himself apart with a fork, and then make him eat the pieces.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>For those of you who are dense, I support the death penalty, and I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate Timothy McVeigh.

Catherine
06-08-2001, 11:20 PM
I am against the death penalty for a number of reasons but I guess if someone I knew had died at the hands of someone on death row, the idea of "revenge" would probably prevail.
<BR>
<BR>Seems like a shame to kill somebody and not use their organs for transplant. I mean, look at all of the people on transplant waiting lists who will die before getting a shot at a transplant. So I guess if we are going to kill people, we might as well make something positive come of it!

shallowdays
06-08-2001, 11:22 PM
i say killin ghim nowis letting him off easy
<BR>
<BR>i say let him rot in a dark jail cell being gan-raped everyday till the day he dies

VorTeX
06-09-2001, 02:23 AM
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<BR>On 2001-06-08 21:57, SirWillow wrote:
<BR>I don't like the idea of a guy getting a free ride for 60 years at $40,000/year (or more) taxpayer expense when he went out and killed people. If their victimes have been denied the right to life, why should they be allowed to have the rest of theirs free?
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<BR>
<BR>"Getting a free ride"...
<BR>Okay.. umm.. no. Live the rest of theirs free??? Have you ever been to a prison? The fear and degradation that goes on there is not freedom. And as for your monetary point, more money is spent putting criminals to death than giving them life in prison.
<BR>
<BR>And you didn't really answer his big point which (though stated rather blindly and loudly) is that the death penalty is just the institutionalization of revenge. Listen to the victim's families some time and tell me this isn't about revenge.
<BR>
<BR>Here's a point to chew on:
<BR>If a criminal isn't deterred by living the rest of his life in constant fear of rape, prison killings, violence, total lack of freedom... I don't honestly think death is going to deter him all that much more.

Taipan
06-09-2001, 09:56 AM
Use him as a guinea pig on rollercoasters that were too dangerous to build ,i.e one that pulls 10Gs!

Anaconda
06-09-2001, 08:26 PM
If you do a mass murder (as in 10 or more people) then yes, you deserve to be put to death. But other than that no, b/c in a mass murder its easy to tell the guilty party, in other cases its quite difficult.
<BR>
<BR>10. Push from an extremely high cliff onto
<BR>a marshmallow
<BR>
<BR>9. Make him jump nude into a uranium processor
<BR>
<BR>8. Put him on a plane with a bomb in it and let the bomb kill him
<BR>
<BR>7. Put him on a leap-the-gaps roller coaster
<BR>with the gap at 100ft. high
<BR>
<BR>6. Pictures of all the victims and their families pasted in a wall on a room and let it eat at his brain until he dies of guilt (Its happened before)
<BR>
<BR>5. Throw him into shark-infested waters
<BR>
<BR>4. Make him the crash dummy who doesn't wear his seatbelt
<BR>
<BR>3. Castrate him without numbing him and then the next day put poison in his food that makes him have real bad stomach aches for a couple of weeks before dying
<BR>
<BR>2. Burn him at the stake
<BR>
<BR>1. Beat him to death

Cheesy
06-09-2001, 08:43 PM
I'm all for him dying, but who really wants to watch him die? That is just cruel and unusual.

Sir Willow
06-09-2001, 11:14 PM
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<BR>And you didn't really answer his big point which (though stated rather blindly and loudly) is that the death penalty is just the institutionalization of revenge. Listen to the victim's families some time and tell me this isn't about revenge.
<BR>
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<BR>You're right, I did miss addressing that point. Kind of ate at me last night to, but I didn't get a chance to come back to it til now. Thanks for the opportunity.
<BR>
<BR>Here is why the death penalty is not about revenge:
<BR>
<BR>The penalty is known about before the crime is committed. The person committing murder knows before and as they do it that it could mean their execution.
<BR>
<BR>The victims and their families do not choose the sentence. An independant, and as impartial as possible, judge and jury does. (Remember the defense helps pick the jury)
<BR>
<BR>The victims do not carry out the sentence on the convicted. An independant system that is not involved in the crime except to carry out the sentence does.
<BR>
<BR>If the victim families were allowed to decide the penalty and carry it out themselves, that would be revenge. But they do not, and can not. The system does.
<BR>
<BR>Additionally, Halation, and any others, that would like to discuss the issues that were brought up in another thread about how this, and politics, relates to Christianity, etc.. I won't discuss it here (wrong place for it), but if you want to discuss it, I'm more than willing. Just send me a PM. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Kraken
06-10-2001, 12:48 AM
They should have someone rip off his genitals with a spoon. or how about putting him into a large sack with a rabid racoon?

Halation
06-10-2001, 12:12 PM
First of all "sir Willow" tells me to stop with the anti-God statements. How on earth could my statement "how can you speak death penalty in one breath, and God in the next?" be construed as "anti-god"? Obviously you have a mixed-up perception and you don't see the ultimate irony in saying your a "god-loving" (god-FEARING?) person and then say you support the death penalty. I'm not "anti-god", I'm against religious dogma (which has nothing to do with "God") and hypocrisy.
<BR>
<BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Halation on 2001-06-10 12:14 ]</font><BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Halation on 2001-06-10 13:05 ]</font>

Halation
06-10-2001, 12:36 PM
Second, sirWillow says the death penalty is not about revenge for these reasons; "the penalty is known beforehand by the criminal".-So what is that supposed to prove? It doesn't say anything about the point. Next he says "the victims families don't carry out the sentence of the convicted" yes, it is not carried out by the victims families directly, that is pretty obvious. The sentence is carried out by the Judicial system, which is enacted by the Legislative system and ultimately signed into law by the Executive branch. This system is called a Democracy, "by the people, for the people". So if your saying the victims families, or you for that matter, aren't involved in the sentence, your hiding from the truth. Your support of George W. Bush stains your hands with blood.
<BR>
<BR>Here are some facts from Amnesty International's 2001 report.
<BR>- In 2000 88 percent of the world's executions took place in China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and The United States of America.
<BR>- In 2000 the U.S. carried out 85 executions. In flagrant breach of international standards, the figure includes people who were under eighteen at the time of the crime, others who were mentally impared and foreign nationals who had their consular rights denied.
<BR>-Since 1973 more than 90 U.S. prisoners have been released from death row after evidence emerged of their innocence, of crimes crimes in which they were sentenced to death.
<BR>
<BR>-just some food for thought.
<BR><BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Halation on 2001-06-10 13:12 ]</font>

VorTeX
06-10-2001, 01:04 PM
Some other things to keep in mind:
<BR>
<BR>- The death penalty has repeatedly been shown to have a racial bias for the victim (They are far more likely to be put to death for the same exact crime if the victim is white). Of those executed, nearly 90% were convicted of killing whites, although people of color are more than half of all homicide victims in the United States
<BR>
<BR>- many of these death row inmates were given state-provided lawyers who were unable to adequately defend them
<BR>
<BR>- on the same note as above, those who are impoverished are far more likely to be put to death than those who are not
<BR>
<BR>- Illinois has (or at least had, I'm pretty sure it's still in effect?) a moratorium on the death penalty because of how many INNOCENT people were there. How many others states is this happening in, but no one's looking into it? It has been proven in 350 capital convictions over the past 20 years that the convicted person had not committed the crime. Of these cases, 25 people were executed before their innocence was discovered.
<BR>
<BR>- All other western democracies have abolished capital punishment and have lower rates of violent crime.
<BR>
<BR>- Capital punishment denies due process of law because it is irrevocable. Any new evidence or new laws that may have helped the individual can no longer do so.
<BR>
<BR>- Captial punishment has not proved to be a deterrent to crime. States which have the death penalty do not have lower rates of violent crime than states without the death penalty.
<BR>
<BR>- On the money issue, in the State of Texas, it costs $2.3 million on an average to prosecute and execute each capital case as compared to $400,000 for life imprisonment.
<BR>
<BR>- To work the religious angle a little (despite my own non-belief): Today we have the ability to realize better the principles of mercy, forgiveness, and unconditional love for all people, as evoked in the Hebrew Scriptures by the Prophet Ezekiel: "As I live, says the Lord GOD, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man's conversion, that he may live. Turn, turn from your evil ways." (Ezek. 33:11)
<BR>

VorTeX
06-10-2001, 01:05 PM
Oh and.. "Your support of George W. Bush stains your hands with blood."????
<BR>
<BR>I despise him and all... but was there any point whatsoever in saying that?
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>_________________
<BR>VorTeX
<BR>Cedar Point Season Pass Holder
<BR>
<BR>I believe in life BEFORE death.
<BR>
<BR>Got Questions?
<BR><!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.fallentree.org" target="_blank">http://www.fallentree.org</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end --><BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VorTeX on 2001-06-10 13:06 ]</font>

Brett Weissbart
06-10-2001, 01:20 PM
Sigh... I can see how this is going to end up...
<BR>
<BR>either as an argument about religion or politics.
<BR>
<BR>Consider this your warning.

Halation
06-10-2001, 01:21 PM
Yes, my "stained with blood statement" was dramatic, but the reason I said that was because this guy was fervorently defending George Bush and his "greatness". George W. Bush was the governor of the state that has executed more people than any other in this country. I do believe that these people don't realize what the consequences of the death penalty are (for OUR country, and our Psyche). The intention of my statement was to be dramatic, to maybe make them think of the ways that the penalty of death affects EVERYONE involved, and HIS support of George Bush ultimately involves him in the act of revenge, which I think the death penalty is.<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Halation on 2001-06-10 13:27 ]</font>

Sir Willow
06-10-2001, 05:01 PM
Halation- I made a couple of offers to you in my last post. Are you going to respond to them?
<BR>
<BR>As for the rest of this- I'm not rising to your bait. Sorry. This is already beyond what should be tolerable. Seems to me like the whole thread- and the ones like it- were started in the hopes of flaming and bashing other opinions.
<BR>
<BR>I find it a bit funny that someone who is so quick to trash opinions that they don't like is attempting to talk about what "love and tolerance" is. Ah, but doesn't it always seem to work that way. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">
<BR>
<BR>Anyways, still waiting to see if you respond to my PM offer. Don't bother posting a response to me here, I won't be checking. I've no desire for a flame war or arguement just for the sake of hearing myself scream and yell at others who have different opinions.

Metalhead 777
06-10-2001, 08:00 PM
Go Sir Willow! I believe the death penalty is necesary for a serial killer. Here's an example of why punishment is NOT revenge(ya lisining Halation?) If youre going 90 and the speed limit is 25, and a cop gives you a ticket, is that revenge?

Metalhead 777
06-10-2001, 08:01 PM
That's just sick Kraken.

Halation
06-10-2001, 09:37 PM
I was blind, now I can see!!!
<BR>Metalhead what a genius you are are. When you put it that way, WOW! What an analogy, comparing a speeding ticket to the death penalty!! How BRILLIANT! You are SO RIGHT!!!
<BR> LET HIM FRY!!!!!

GeorgiaSchorcherfreak
06-10-2001, 09:57 PM
I say turn him loose. Of course it
<BR>would be in a room full of VIctims
<BR>and victims family with no police
<BR>and also put a garbage chute that
<BR>goes to the dumpster. Then when
<BR>some reason he is discovered dead in
<BR>a dumpster rule it suicide. If
<BR>they must execute him then they
<BR>should do the way they do in CHina
<BR>you are sentenced to die you are
<BR>executed as soon as being sentenced
<BR>then you family has to pay for the
<BR>bullet.
<BR>
<BR>_________________
<BR>How come boot camp is not for boots<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeorgiaSchorcherfreak on 2001-06-10 22:01 ]</font>

TravisBiggar
06-10-2001, 11:21 PM
Halation, yes, accually, it was a good analogy...
<BR>
<BR>I myself don't think I should say what I belive, because moderators should be imparital, just like the juries that decided the punishment are.
<BR>
<BR>But, people, remeber, this is not a war about why religion says it's right or wrong, or who supports Bush, and how their hands are stained with blood (when I read that, I was thinking "Come on! This person NEVER said he supported Bush. So, he may support something Bush also does, but everyone has to have one thing in common with him!")
<BR>This is if you think Tim should fry or not! That is all. Give a small paragraph on why you agree, not a ongoing argument on why you are right, this person is wrong...
<BR>
<BR>I don't know... Consider this your second warning.

Kraken
06-10-2001, 11:25 PM
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<BR>On 2001-06-10 20:01, Metalhead 777 wrote:
<BR>That's just sick Kraken.
<BR>
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<BR>
<BR>Blowing up a building filled with children is even sicker.

VorTeX
06-11-2001, 01:00 AM
The reason that the speeding ticket is a bad analogy is simple. Killing someone is irrevocable and therefore deprives them of their due process.
<BR>
<BR>You guys seem to forget that courts/police make mistakes and sometimes are even out to get people.

Jim Payne
06-11-2001, 10:30 AM
This joker got off easy. In the early dyas they were stoned, Hanged, Shot, and even electricuted. This is just simple Euthenasia. Way too humane for what this joker did. By the way, it costs about $100K a year to keep a guy in prison and $50K a pop for an execution. I'd say we save a ton of taxpayer cash. Maybe this should be done more often!
<BR>
<BR>_________________
<BR>ThrillRide! Forum Moderator<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jim Payne on 2001-06-11 10:39 ]</font>

Halation
06-11-2001, 10:42 AM
Timothy McVeigh is dead. Isn't the world such a nice place now.
<BR>
<BR> Yes, he did get off easy, he should have been made to sit in a cell for the rest of his life with pictures of all the people he killed all over his walls.
<BR>
<BR> Now if we can kill all of those other murderers, everything will be PERFECT!

Halation
06-11-2001, 10:43 AM
Timothy McVeigh is dead. Isn't the world such a nice place now.
<BR>
<BR> Yes, he did get off easy, he should have been made to sit in a cell for the rest of his life with pictures of all the people he killed all over his walls.
<BR>
<BR> Now if we can kill all of those other murderers, everything will be PERFECT!
<BR>We will have avenged our God!

Jim Payne
06-11-2001, 10:45 AM
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<BR>On 2001-06-10 13:21, Halation wrote:
<BR>Yes, my "stained with blood statement" was dramatic, but the reason I said that was because this guy was fervorently defending George Bush and his "greatness". George W. Bush was the governor of the state that has executed more people than any other in this country. I do believe that these people don't realize what the consequences of the death penalty are (for OUR country, and our Psyche). The intention of my statement was to be dramatic, to maybe make them think of the ways that the penalty of death affects EVERYONE involved, and HIS support of George Bush ultimately involves him in the act of revenge, which I think the death penalty is.
<BR>
<BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Halation on 2001-06-10 13:27 ]</font>
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<BR>
<BR>Saved a lot of peoples lives and tax payer dollars because of it. I say cook 'em. Crooks get off too easy these days. WIth all the technology, proving guilt is getting a lot easier. You know, if you spit on a street in Singapore you go to prison. In America, you can shoot a person in front of witnesses and walk because of a clerical error. I think it's time for a little justice in this country again. Instead they'd rather disarm innocent people by taking guns away. By the way, there isn't a criminal out there that can't get a gun when they want too. Heck, the only people in England with guns are the criminals. There's a pleasent thought for countrymen who have a right to bear arms.

Jim Payne
06-11-2001, 10:47 AM
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<BR>On 2001-06-11 10:43, Halation wrote:
<BR>Timothy McVeigh is dead. Isn't the world such a nice place now.
<BR>
<BR> Yes, he did get off easy, he should have been made to sit in a cell for the rest of his life with pictures of all the people he killed all over his walls.
<BR>
<BR> Now if we can kill all of those other murderers, everything will be PERFECT!
<BR>We will have avenged our God!
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<BR>
<BR>He enjoyed that crap. That would have been like a gift. Heck we've been listening to Manson for 30 years. Enough of him too.

Anaconda
06-11-2001, 11:59 AM
Jim Payne, you are so right. I think Manson has been around long enough, lets get rid of him. Also, I'm not happy that Tim McVeigh is dead, but at least justice has been done.

VorTeX
06-11-2001, 06:55 PM
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<BR>
<BR>No! No! No!
<BR>
<BR>It's far cheaper to imprison someone for life than to execute them.

DrachenFire96
06-11-2001, 07:13 PM
He's dead, now shouldn't this strand die as well? <BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DrachenFire96 on 2001-06-11 19:14 ]</font>

ChronoTrigger
06-11-2001, 07:28 PM
Yes it should. He is dead, and the bashing here needs to die as well. The warning has been given. It is time to lock.