PDA

View Full Version : Drachen Fire was originally designed by B&M



slipknot8527
05-05-2001, 12:57 AM
I swear this is true. The original designer for Drachen Fire was B&M. Instead of the camelback hump, they had a xero g roll planned but Arrows track design couldn't pull it off. B&M gave it to Arrow so they could concentrate on the inverted Batman design. It's so rough because Arrows track gauge is much narrower than B&Ms and they didn't take that into consideration when they built it. Pretty Crazy!

mrcoaster
05-05-2001, 01:07 AM
I heard a slightly different story from a Busch mgr. when Drachen Fire was new. I heard B&M was the original choice to build the ride, but they couldn't do it until a year after Arrow could build it. So BGW went with Arrow, but kept the similar design.
<BR>

Alpengeist
05-05-2001, 02:11 AM
...to add to that, Arrow's popularity wasd declining as they were being bested. They needed some new stuff, and Drachen Fire was some of it. Personally, I don't believe that B&M had much to do other than conceptual design. There is no hard evidence of any of it. Another thing, the track gauge doesnt make a bit of difference as Arows track gauge is made for Arrow trains. Arrow doesn't use the 4 across style, so whomever started the track gauge theory is a moron. Also, the design credit goes to Ron Toomer...A definate B&M employee (note sarcasm). Please don't think i'm trying to be mean about it, but i'm just so sick of hearing about "B&M was supposed to make DF"...Maybe, Maybe not...but until i see HARD evidence, i would take it with a grain of salt...

Cabana
05-05-2001, 03:01 AM
I thought that BGW designed the ride, asked B&M to make who couldn't, then went to Arrow. Can anyone confirm that BGT designed Kumba or was that all B&M? I heard something like this...

roomraider
05-05-2001, 04:53 AM
Hey
<BR>
<BR>I sent of a letter to B&M about 3 days ago asking about this very thing.
<BR>Hopefully it will reveal the truth and we can put it to rest.
<BR>
<BR>i still have the artical on my site about it but im not sure about it.

Medusa1861
05-06-2001, 11:30 AM
yeh i beleved that from the day i heard it.it is not usual for a hill to be on an upside down rollercoaster.

coaster man098
05-06-2001, 12:17 PM
here's the story. B+M were supposed to build dracen fire for BGW, but they were in over their heads with kumba and had to withdraw from dracen fire. panicked, BGW hired arrow to build the ride by next season, and it hurts because the dimensions were ment for B+M track.

CoasterMike
05-06-2001, 01:45 PM
That hard evidence would be classic B&M elements that were only seen on one arrow coaster

slayer666
05-06-2001, 02:10 PM
BGW picked arrow because b&m couldnt maie it until a year later? maybe BGW should ahve waited.. but drachen fire is sweet.

Air-force-1
05-18-2001, 05:07 PM
I agree 100% with CoasterMike. I have heard this story and was pretty surprised when I first did, but it does start to make sense.
<BR>
<BR>The layout of this ride is very classic of B&M, but nothing like Arrow had ever done, nor has ever done since.
<BR>
<BR>Is it not the only cobraroll on an Arrow?
<BR>an element that B&M introduced on Kumba one year later...
<BR>
<BR>Arrow never seperated the corkscrew to my knowledge...the ending corkscrew layout is basically the same as Kumba...or was until they changed it...
<BR>
<BR>Camelback that was supposed to be a zero-g-roll...showed up the next year on Kumba...
<BR>
<BR>As far as the hill/corkscrew...I think B&M could have pulled this off a little better than arrow...
<BR>
<BR>I'm not saying that this is for certain, but the facts sure do stand out...IMHO, if this WAS the case, Busch made a big mistake and should have waited a year and done it right...this would have been a great B&M...not that its a terrible Arrow, but its a unique design that I think B&M could have pulled off a little better.
<BR>
<BR>Later,
<BR>DAVE

Erik Johnson
05-18-2001, 06:57 PM
The other thing I noticed was the supports. They're not the typical Arrow supports like on Magnum, but they are tubular. The lift on Drachen Fire has that B&M trademark where the supports are close together on the base and far apart on the track.
<BR>
<BR>Look at the left side of the second picture:
<BR><!-- BBCode auto-link start --><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/drachenfire/pics.html" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/drachenfire/pics.html</a><!-- BBCode auto-link end -->
<BR>
<BR>_________________
<BR>Erik Johnson
<BR>ThrillRide! Forum Moderator<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Erik Johnson on 2001-05-18 18:59 ]</font>

Kevin Winkler
05-19-2001, 03:57 AM
Well, the truth comes out...Drachen Fire WAS NOT designed, built, or even thought of by B&M. Thanks to Roomraider for putting this awful rumor to rest.

may the FORCE be with you
06-10-2001, 11:16 PM
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2001-05-19 03:57, Kevin Winkler wrote:
<BR>Well, the truth comes out...Drachen Fire WAS NOT designed, built, or even thought of by B&M. Thanks to Roomraider for putting this awful rumor to rest.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>I agree. Just kill the rumor.

DBCooper
06-10-2001, 11:30 PM
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2001-05-05 03:01, Cabana wrote:
<BR>I thought that BGW designed the ride, asked B&M to make who couldn't, then went to Arrow. Can anyone confirm that BGT designed Kumba or was that all B&M? I heard something like this...
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>Kumba's conceptual designer was Mark Rose, Vice-President of Design and Engineering. B+M took the concept and turned it into Kumba.

Nosk8er
06-11-2001, 12:17 AM
yeah well can u remember how sweet it would be if B& M did design it?

arlok2
06-11-2001, 08:52 AM
if they did do some conseptual work with it you know how they could save it? Add the corkscrew and put smooth b&M sitdown trains on it that work with arrows track gauge. take out the hill and add the 0 gee roll. then again b&M trains coast 1.3 million dollars each. and that is for inverts. who knows about sitdowns.

Anaconda
06-11-2001, 10:39 AM
Kill this rumor, its a debate that won't help or hurt the fate of Drachen Fire.

Thrillman
06-11-2001, 10:56 AM
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2001-05-19 03:57, Kevin Winkler wrote:
<BR>Well, the truth comes out...Drachen Fire WAS NOT designed, built, or even thought of by B. Thanks to Roomraider for putting this awful rumor to rest.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>Then I guess it was Arrow's attempt to make a B&M copy and failed at it. And its not an awful rumour considering it has many classic B&M elements.

HatTricky2k
06-11-2001, 11:09 AM
i know the discussion is basically at a close...but i might as well share what i had read yesterday. and here goes... busch had hired b and M to build 2 rides and layouts were completed. since b and m were a new company at the time, they had their work cut out for them on kumba. after busch heard this, b and m handed over their layout designs to arrow, so that the coaster could be done as plans... the story i read said that since b and m always designs their rides with the heart as the center of gravity and arrow designs them with the center of the car as the center of gravity, this caused many problems as the elements were not done right to compensate for the train style... anyway thats the story i heard even though, i dont think i got it exactly right, everyone else is saying diffrently so ill just leave it at that

Medusa1861
06-11-2001, 03:13 PM
Didn't Ron Toomer deign drachen fire? Has he done any designs that were for B&M he seems to work with Arrow. so that kind of goes with more evidence that B&M din't design it or had anything to do with it

dingo65
06-11-2001, 03:49 PM
I was told that B&M were going to build it but were to busy so Arrow did it. Later the sit down that might have been Drachen Fire went to BGT as Kumba...
<BR>
<BR> Wow! Pretty neat!

DBCooper
06-14-2001, 04:22 PM
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2001-06-11 15:13, Medusa1861 wrote:
<BR>Didn't Ron Toomer deign drachen fire? Has he done any designs that were for B&M he seems to work with Arrow. so that kind of goes with more evidence that B&M din't design it or had anything to do with it
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->
<BR>
<BR>I have <i>SO</i> wanted to say this...
<BR>
<BR>*ArnoldSchwarzeneggermode=ON*It IS a Toomer!*ArnoldSchwarzeneggermode=OFF*

NITROman
06-21-2001, 06:28 PM
<!-- BBCode Quote Start --><TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>On 2001-05-06 12:17, coaster man098 wrote:
<BR>here's the story. B+M were supposed to build dracen fire for BGW, but they were in over their heads with kumba and had to withdraw from dracen fire. panicked, BGW hired arrow to build the ride by next season, and it hurts because the dimensions were ment for B+M track.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE><!-- BBCode Quote End -->Thats the answer.
<BR>

Thrillguy87
06-29-2001, 08:47 PM
If B&M did design it then it would probably still be running cause a lot of arrow's coasters have bin shut down or in storage or remodled take steel phantom as an example i think that bgw is gonna wait to see how phantom's revenge does before making any changes

Inferno
07-12-2001, 01:22 AM
Steel Phantom, which was a hyper to begin with, is a little different than DF. All they did to SF really was took out the inversions and had Morgan fill in the gaps and retrack the coaster. For DF, they're obviously not gonna take out the inversions. There would be no point. They'll just have to change it to make it as smooth as they want it. Personally, rough coasters don't bother me. I'm sure DF isn't any worse than some of the loopers I've been on. Looks really fun and I was dissappointed I couldn't ride it while I was at BGW. I did manage to take some pics of the nest on top of the first inversion though!