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ejatwd
11-26-2004, 09:44 PM
first, i would like to thank all those who work hard to keep the speedzone and the rest of thrillnetwork up and running. here are some of my thoughts on the current state of the speedzone.

-first, i am annoyed about all the votes being lost, but i can understand with having to go to a new system and everything.

-second, are we not going to be able to see the average vote of a ride without selecting it? that will really annoy me.

-third, (and sorry if this is turning into a wish list, i would have posted sooner if i knew you were planning to change things soon), i think that along with displaying the average vote on the list of rides, the creator's name should also be displayed. that way, if someone really likes a particular person's ride (or inversely, hates another persons building style), they can do a 'sort by creator' to see that creator's other rides and get them, which would result in more downloads, which would result in more incentive to post rides here.

-4th-i really like how now you have to comment to rate. i think that was a much needed addition.

-5th-sort of along with 3rd, i think that on people's public profiles there should be links to all their rides or parks if they have made any. again, this will result in more downloads, and more traffic in speedzone. as it is right now, once your ride is off the front page, its almost guaranteed that no one will download it unless maybe you include a link in your signature.

-6th-can you make it so that to be in the top 10, you have to have atleast 3 (or 5, or some other number) rates? it really annoys me when great rides are bumped off because someone gave a not so great ride a 9 or 10 and no one else has bothered to rate it.

-7th-i like the new look of speedzone in general. i think it looks better, and i like the little winner's circle thing being on the main page instead of in an inconspicuous corner.

-8th-this is probably a little far fetched because coastersims is coded from scratch and is not a vbulletin site so they can do stuff differently, but if there were a way to enforce a 5 to 1 download to rate ratio like they do that would be great.

well, those are my thoughts, sorry they are a little late. please take them into consideration, and keep it up.

thanks. :)

Jerry S
11-26-2004, 10:00 PM
Your 8th idea is bad. That ruins CS. The people who make the rides don't car about comments as much as the ydo ratings. Especially if there are alot of very good, keep it up.

bk2004
11-26-2004, 10:04 PM
Oh, I thought this was some official thread to it, but it's not to my surprise! :eek: But I guess I will spill out my thoughts too! :)

First off, when I saw the new speedzone tonight I was speechless because I had no idea. I was just going in to check out things and all of the sudden bam! It does look so much better with all of the new graphics and visuliazations I have to agree. The star voting is cool too. I have nothing to nag about because I think it is just perfect. Though I just hope the loading time is quicker than it has been lately because it's been a nightmare for me loading things up. Over an hour for things that orginally took just a minute. But in the end it does look great and I like it. It was so boring with just the normal colors and text and now it's TN's own! Good job and thanks!

Erik Leppen
11-28-2004, 03:41 AM
I was surprised to see the new SpeedZone. But for some reason, I couldn't find a top 10, just a top 3... I want to see the top 10, 'cause one of my rides was in it. :)

But the general looks of SpeedZone are improved. I can't see the rating in the tracks list, is that correct?

I like the idea of having to comment to vote very much. However, I don't hope that lots of useless comments OR less votes will be the result...

And I like ejatwd's idea to somewhere put the creator's name in the tracks list.

Oh yeah, I can't anymore sort the list to name or number of downloads... that's a de-provement (is that a word?)

EDIT: I hate it that >ALL< votes are removed. I think I'm gonna vote every one of my rides with whatever was about average of all votes on each.

Steven
11-28-2004, 01:20 PM
Here's a list of reasons why there's this or that changed, or something's missing...

- The inability to sort... that appears to be a bug that was created when I had to remove the # of votes (which used the old system). It's not intentional and that will get fixed soon. My bad. When I fix this, I'll put the creator in the lists... shouldn't be too hard. (edit: This has since been fixed, and it gives the creator of the upload, but you can't sort by it)

- Given the fact that we had to switch to a new voting system, and there was no way of translating the old votes to the new one (since we are now associating them with posts versus the ride itself). We found it was flawed once we had problems of vote bombing and complaints about people voting and not explaining. In addition, there was no easy way for anyone to remove them. We realize that it may result in less votes, or in some cases, useless comments, but those are easier to deal with. We expected people to be annoyed about this, but we did discuss things, and even I didn't want to delete them, and I looked for a way to do it. However, none came up because the way the old system was designed prevented me from doing so.

- For the top 10... I kept it in there (it is calculated every 10 minutes) until I realized that it was using the old system. It would never get updated (they were statically saved with the ride itself, which was a bad idea). So, they never would have changed. When I fix that (I'm going to wait until there's enough votes on rides), I will make it so that it has a min. number of votes. So, it will return, and you have my word on that.

- Like the top 10, the same reasons apply for the lack of a "rating" column in the list/search/etc. I will bring them back when enough votes are available.

- As far as the download/upload ratio... I have always hated those. I download far more than the ratio (5:1) would allow, especially since I would ride more coasters than create (I suck at creating rides). Yes, I'm admin, and I could write something to have me override it, but what's the point? Why have restrictions on what you can download and upload? CS has their ratio, and another site that I can't mention makes members pay to upload, which is a bunch of crap if you ask me.

- I think I can add something for a user's profile similar to how we have our park/ride count set up. I can't put it directly into a vBulletin profile (since that's hacking and that voids any possibility of support), but having a page that I can link to in the profile... that is possible.

Erik Leppen
11-29-2004, 02:32 AM
Oh Awesome! Thank you very much!

Real
11-29-2004, 09:58 AM
First, I like this place. Itís not too bad, but if you are going to take what is said below without an understanding mind and heart, you might as well not read because youíll probably take it as being negative slams instead of constructive and reasonable thoughts.


Your 8th idea is bad. That ruins CS. The people who make the rides don't car about comments as much as the ydo ratings. Especially if there are alot of very good, keep it up.


- As far as the download/upload ratio... I have always hated those. I download far more than the ratio (5:1) would allow, especially since I would ride more coasters than create (I suck at creating rides). Yes, I'm admin, and I could write something to have me override it, but what's the point? Why have restrictions on what you can download and upload? CS has their ratio, and another site that I can't mention makes members pay to upload, which is a bunch of crap if you ask me.


Sadly, it seems like both of you misunderstand the ratio and its purpose. More importantly, I can probably bet that both of you feel that you have to know NoLimits like the back of your hand, or, be a roller coaster designer to rate, which both and anything like that is false.

I for one wrote an entire guide to rating that shows people how to put down their thoughts and ideas in a way thatís both constructive and gives the designer feedback - EVEN if you donít use NL to build rides. People just donít look for the guides or even ask, they ASSUME that in order to rate you have to give these huge detailed ratings, because its what they see others do, which is completely a bunch of BS and completely that persons fault for assuming.


Personally, and its probably just me, but its the fact that people like to download all they want and never respond that makes me not want to upload at certain sites. The ratio is also why most of the rides at CS are a step above the rest. How many times have I seen threads here and other places asking for rides created there (CS) to be uploaded here and there? How many times with my tracks? Iíve seen quite a few and I think it illustrates that point.

Though, there are some very good tracks here and at other sites, but sadly they donít get the kind of good advice they need. The only reason I even get ratings is because Iím "Real". If I was anyone else I would get half the ratings I get, which is sad.


There are 2 types of builders:

Serious: The person who strives to succeed and progress. This person doesnít like to build the same type of ride over and over nor does this person like their technique to sit dormant, they want to progress.

Casual: The person who doesnít care if they win or lose, or more importantly, the person who doesnít care if they get better or not. They like to build and thatís it.


I think itís unfair to only cater to the Casual builder (by giving small, short rates and undetailed rates) and leave out the serious one. The serious one is going to make those rides that everyone loves and goes wow over. It will also draw people to your site, as Iíve seen my name and my rides draw people to sites. But if you enforce some sort of downloading rule and a ratings guideline, you give your serious builders the information they need and the casual builder will get information, they just choose whether or not to use it. Itís better to have it there then not there at all.


This gets talked about a lot, since CS has the strictest ratio (aside from ** which makes you pay, which I agree, thatís insane) and it doesnít take me more than 2 minutes to type out a quick, undetailed rating that will help the designer see their ride from another perspective.


Obviously, CS will probably be the only one to remain with the ratio and stricter guidelines. But me personally, I donít feel a lot of the other sites have anything to offer from an NL point of view that CS doesnít already have or do better. Iím not a CS fan boy, Iíve long since resigned my position I had over there and I upload to all sites. But the honest truth is that I look to CS when I want to see good, reliable and constructive feedback. Yes, I check ALL of my ratings at ALL of the sites I upload too, but I never get the same feedback.


Now, it defiantly comes down to what you want in your website. Do you want serious, or casual? CS defiantly is the serious side of things, which many people, most immature, cannot handle. Then, most other sites are casual, rebelling against CS.

Me personally, I think a balance of serious and casual is the best mix. Iím sure thereís a lot of serious builders out there not getting the information they need and thus, not able to fully show their abilities.

===============
Hopefully you read that and understand there was no malice or bad intent meant. It was my honest thoughts and nothing was meant to be derogatory to any site or any one person. The quotes were mearly examples.

Dont flame.

Chip
11-29-2004, 10:18 AM
Sadly, it seems like both of you misunderstand the ratio and its purpose. More importantly, I can probably bet that both of you feel that you have to know NoLimits like the back of your hand, or, be a roller coaster designer to rate, which both and anything like that is false.Sadly, that's how I feel at CoasterSims. That (among time issues) is why I don't upload or rate rides there anymore. I cannot smooth rides out despite the fact that I've owned NoLimits for more than two years. It drives me completely insane when a simple question is asked there (how do I make a smooth turn and remove pumping?), and it's met with words that don't make sense (bezier curves and radii? What?!).

I'm starting to rant, so I'll stop now.

I've said it before, but my main beef is that you have to zip rides. I hate that. It's one extra, annoying step.

Anyway, this new SpeedZone rocks my face off. I can't wait until it takes off so we can see the top 10 and stuff. Hopefully this new rating system and commenting thing works out.

Maybe I'll upload a ride or two if I ever find time. I've got a few things I've been working on that aren't good enough for CoasterSims, but they're decent enough for here.

Real
11-29-2004, 06:11 PM
Alex, you dont make any sense. I think out of all the raters at CS or anywhere, you give some of the BEST ratings without doing much work in NL. I think you sell yourself short and stop yourself before you can even start.

Remember the novels you wrote about TTD and Raptor (when it was in testing)? I would think that YOU of all people are the spokesman for being able to give a freakin awesome rating, but not basing it much on the techincal aspect. Youve ridden quite a few coasters and know what makes a good ride, smoothness etc.


Oh and also, you dont have to zip rides. Where did you get that information? I downloaded 2 today from CS that were just regular .nltrack files. The only time you need to zip (or rather, use the Track Packager) is when you have extra files or for woodies. If you think the TP is annoying, sadly I dont think theres anything that could please you. I am on Cable and dont like uploading stuff over 1mb just because uploading something thats 100k is much more efficient for both me and the server. I never upload large files to anywhere, its just courtesy.

Chip
11-29-2004, 07:14 PM
You have to zip files on SpeedZone. I know how it works on CoasterSims. I love the CoasterSims system. The Track Packager is genius.

And I wasn't saying anything about my ratings. I know my ratings are good (or insane). If I had more time, I'd definitely download and rate more rides at CoasterSims and here. I was just commenting on my annoyance with technical terms I don't understand and little problems I can't solve. That's all.

Real
11-29-2004, 07:19 PM
Ahh ok. That clears it up then.

But as I said, youve always been able to rate without using those terms and even I love your ratings. I find good detailed ratings that tell things about pacing, shaping and other stuff. I know most techincal issues within my own rides, so I look for the other things :)