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View Full Version : Battle of 2006 Wood: Voyage vs. El Toro



Marcus
10-17-2005, 04:48 PM
Which do you think will be better based on company reputation and layout?

Coaster Mike
10-17-2005, 04:54 PM
It seems like Voyage would.

Katie
10-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Voyage. I am biased, I don't like Intamins.

coasterdude28
10-17-2005, 05:16 PM
I think El Tor will be awesome but right now I have to go with Voyage. Also why did you make two of the same threads?

Ryan F
10-17-2005, 05:44 PM
I think the voyage because it has the terrain advantage.

dukeandPCfan
10-17-2005, 05:47 PM
i don't know but the 24 secs of airtime, 8 underground moments, and the maintenance staff of Holiday World all seem to point to the Voyage winning this battle

I think El Toro will be awesome though, and am happy that my trip to SFGAdv next year will include it!

coolstarwasim
10-17-2005, 06:03 PM
I think Voyage looks better, It looks cool because it goes underground a ton!

Zingoman
10-17-2005, 06:42 PM
Voyage all the way! El Toro will be a monster of modern technology, but it does not have the woods to run through, the length, the terrain, or the tunnels that Voyage will totally take advantage of. This is one of the most anticipated rides for me in years, and I can't wait till it opens and I can see the videos and read the reviews (since I won't get to be there).

coasterfreak14
10-17-2005, 08:36 PM
Definitely the Voyage. Partially because Gravity Group already has a huge reputation with what they built previously before Gravity Group existed (CCI, etc.) and even now with Hades. They have the reputation with Raven, Ledgend, Boulder Dash, Megafobia, Texas Giant, and even more. Intamin, not so much. El Toro really looks like they took Colossos and mixed it up a little and added a bit. Not really original. Plus it's not a record breaker. So I'm Voyage all the way.

dcs221
10-17-2005, 08:47 PM
Voyage isn't a record breaker. El Toro is. I think it's taller that Voyage if I'm remembering correctly, but it's definately shorter.

I think Voyage will be better, though not by as much as you'd think. El Toro's airtime will be absolutely amazing, probably even moreso than Voyage.

Intamin has a much larger reputation from what they've previously built than GG does. Since their new wooden plug and play coasters give a similar experience to their mega coasters, one could argue that the reputation for Intamin's woodies was built through their megas, which are consistently ranked among the best roller coasters in the world, over anything CCI or Dinn.


Voyage looks awesome, but I really don't see it being better than SROS SFNE, so if El Toro was built more up to it's potential, then I think it would almost definately be better than Voyage. As it is, El Toro looks great, but not quite as good as it could be, therefore I think Voyage will be better.

steel
10-17-2005, 08:52 PM
That's a really tough one. I'd have to go with Voyage for its airtime and because Hades rocked like no other. El Toro is sure to be awesome, though.

Riddler156
10-17-2005, 09:29 PM
Both are quite exciting and will probably be the best of the coasters opening in 2006. I'm more excited for Voyage, though, due to its insane length and amounts of tunnels.

coasterfreak14
10-17-2005, 09:32 PM
^^^The Voyage is too a record breaker. Did you not read the press release? It's going to have more than 20 seconds of airtime! That is the most airtime of any coaster ever! And if i'm not mistaken, i'm pretty sure it's going to have the most tunnels of at least wooden coasters, if not all. El Toro is not a record breaker. It's going to go 70 mph. Last I checked, Son of Beast goes 78, and that's a lot faster than 70. The height isn't a record either. So you need to check your "facts" and stop saying what's a record breaker and what's not. By the way, since when has Intamin had a higher reputation than GG? Intamin doesn't really know what a wooden roller coaster is. Theirs are all very smooth, so what's the difference between their wooden and steel (besides the fact that they're made out of different materials)? It's pretty obvious that Voyage is going to be a much better coaster than El Toro.

Montu Man
10-17-2005, 09:32 PM
I like Voyage because of it's use of the terrain, longer layout, load of airtime, tunnels, and 90 degree banked turns. El Toro looks pretty sweet though...

Riddler156
10-17-2005, 09:35 PM
El Toro is not a record breaker.
It doesn't have a height or speed record, but it does have the steepest drop on a wooden coaster.

leatherface9525
10-17-2005, 09:44 PM
Voyage all the way for the length tunnels and awesome g's!

coasterfreak14
10-17-2005, 09:44 PM
It doesn't have a height or speed record, but it does have the steepest drop on a wooden coaster.

Big whoop. On what, one hill?

HPStormRunner22
10-17-2005, 09:49 PM
It's going to have more than 20 seconds of airtime! That is the most airtime of any coaster ever!

Actually it will have the most airtime for any Wooden coaster. So you're the one that needs to check your "facts." And 8 MPH really isn't much of a speed differance when your looking at speeds over 65 MPH.

But onto the topic. I think that Voyage will be better. The overall use of the terrain and how it will wind through the trees just makes it seem a lot better. I'd rather have that "In the middle of nowhere" feeling then the "In the middle of an amusement park" one. El Toro still looks awesome though

Nitro1118
10-17-2005, 09:50 PM
I'm going to go with El Toro, and here's why:

Voyage looks boring, plain and simple. A lot of very gentle, but fastly paced, right turns with a ton of small little hills to steal the airtime record. But, the airtime will be all floater, not ejector. It also looks like it will last a bit too long.

Toro on the other hand is guarenteed to be an action packed 1min and 42 second adventure. Best drop on any wooden coaster, amazing ejector airtime, nice layout, nice setting, awesome trains, and great twister finale mixed with airtime.

Voyage just isn't packed with action like Toro is, and nothing stands out on it like on Toro.

dcs221
10-17-2005, 09:57 PM
This post is directed at Coasterfreak14, who isn't making much sense right now...

Ok. I was mistaken. I said I wasn't sure about the height. My bad about the airtime record...I didn't feel like checking.

However, you're wrong too. Voyage does not have the most airtime of any coaster. Apollo's Chariot had more airtime (28 seconds or so) and that was made back in 1999. Steel Dragon 2000 also probably has more airtime.

Check your attitude playa. Especially when your facts are wrong. One of my statements was incorrect, however I didn't phrase it in an antagonizing way.

Intamin's reputation is my opinion. You don't like it, deal with it, because I really don't care. Not even a little bit. I explained why I said Intamin had a better reputation, and since you really can't say anything to dispute what I said about them being similar to Intamin megas (consistently ranked the best in the world) then keep your comments to yourself unless they're relevant to my comment, or you're starting a new argument, which is also fine.

If you're going to tell someone (who knows more than you) to check their facts, then you need to be really sure that yours are straight. The coaster with the most airtime is debatable, since both companies may have used a different measurement system, but the drop steepness is not. You're wrong about that.

Ta2KX
10-17-2005, 10:56 PM
Larry Bill would eat you if he saw this topic. I'm going to bank on Voyage being better than El Toro. It's like sending a division I-AA football team westward to play a I-A squad; it's a game but the winner is ahead by a wide margin when time ticks out. Now that being said, I'd like to see THESE TWO MATCH UPS.

Stats are based on results of the 2004 Internet Wood Coaster Poll and the 2005 Hades In-Season Poll

THE NEW JERSEY AIR TIME CLASSIC
#24 ranked: J2 (Tsunami) vs. unranked: El Toro

THE UNDERWORLD - UPTOWN RIVALRY

#8 ranked: Hades vs. unranked: El Toro


As far as Voyage goes, it's coach . . uhh, Team Leader has stated the following:
"come fall 2006, Shivering Timbers, we'll see you in the IWCP series championship"

Nitro1118
10-17-2005, 11:49 PM
Toro will be in the same league as Voyage. Again, Voyage has NOTHING on Toro except tunnels and length (and Toro is a fairly long wooden coasters).

What I am excited to see is how well HW's original 2 wooden coasters matchup to Voyage.

Griswold
10-17-2005, 11:59 PM
^^^^I'll be riding those two over and over again while everyone else is in line for Voyage. That's all I know! Give me a couple rides on Voyage and then, it's over to the Raven and Legend for the rest of the day!

Ta2KX
10-18-2005, 12:50 AM
When I think about it, the only problem here is riding and rating coasters is a subjective hobby. Several key factors really hinder coasters from being rated in their true nature:

1. What coasters has the rider already experienced to which he or she may compare something new? How long has it been since he or she has been on some of their favorite coasters?

2. Is there a regional or park bias?

3. Is there a Company/Design bias? Some people are true purists with their wood coasters, and they are not quick to change their opinions.

I have to give a lot of credit to the Internet Wood Coaster Poll. Fortunately, the vote tabulation system uses an algorithm sophisticated enough to nullify the 1st factor.

And concerning points 2 and 3, I think there is large enough group of educated enthusiasts in this world that a random sample of them would produce an honest trend of opinions.

So does that mean individual X is wrong for stating Beast at King's Island as the #1 wood? Well no, of course not, but if that person has ridden 300 coasters as opposed to only about 100, his opinion likely is more right. There are a lot of very enthusiastic people on these boards, that's always welcome and encouraged, though it's striking how many people have failed to even ride 50 coasters, counting kiddie coasters.

I guess what I'm trying to say is while rating coasters is largely opinionated, there is a bit more objectiveness in the words of all those among us who Ride first, Debate second. To be blunt, if you've been to two parks, your vote shouldn't even matter. Even if they are the two best parks in the world, you'd be lost to explain why they're the best. Yet in the grand scheme of it all, even if we all someday ride every coaster in existence, those same 3 factors I mentioned before will still keep us from understanding what is the #1 steel and what is the #1 wood.

Smegma
10-18-2005, 01:19 AM
I got wood just thinking about these great coasters!

redunzelizer
10-18-2005, 02:34 AM
I'd seriously say both are definitely better. Looking at the vast difference in concept, technology and expected ride experience, including the way parks do hype each, you might well be able to say that in terms of overall quality one is more equal than the other, or vice versa. This then of course applying to both!

Ever heard of "apples & oranges"? ;)

RichBradley
10-18-2005, 07:45 AM
Hi,
I'm a Researcher from the UK working on a documentary about Wooden Roller Coasters for the Discovery Channel, including El Toro and Voyage.
We're looking for old footage of theme parks, preferably with wooden roller coasters in shot, from the 1970's and before. It doesn't matter what format it is on, but we'd love stuff shot in super 8 or super 16 if anyone has any. It doesn't matter what park it is, or even which country it was shot in.
If you think you may have some good footage you'd lend us please email me on richard.bradley@northonetv.com and let me know roughly what is on the tapes.
Thanks for all your help,
Rich
richard.bradley@northonetv.com

steel
10-18-2005, 07:48 AM
Voyage isn't a record breaker.

You are kidding, right?

Of course Voyage is a record breaker, it's been talked about everywhere!
-tallest Gravity Group coaster
-most 90* banked turns on a wooden coaster
-most airtime on any coaster
-most underground moments on any coaster
-most tunnels on any coaster

Matt M
10-18-2005, 08:01 AM
Best drop on any wooden coaster

I love listening to you arrogent New Jersey people. Best drop on an any wooden coaster eh?

http://drkssk.fc2web.com/zekkyou/nasu/big/big001.jpg
http://drkssk.fc2web.com/zekkyou/nasu/big/big03.jpg

This steel coaster held the steepest drop record for some time, however I would highly doubt at the time it was built that it even had close to the most thrillling drop.

You don't have the best ride ever, don't be so narrowminded.


You are kidding, right?

Of course Voyage is a record breaker, it's been talked about everywhere!
-tallest Gravity Group coaster
-most 90* banked turns on a wooden coaster
-most airtime on any coaster
-most underground moments on any coaster
-most tunnels on any coaster

Yes
Yes
No - Still think it's AC or something of the like. It definitely doesn't have the record in most negative G forces either, I think that's held by either Dodonpa or Expedition Geforce, most like Dodonpa.
No - Dragon Mountain perhaps?
No - Indoor coasters are a very large tunnel in itself, and Dragon Mountain or maybe The Beast still probably wins in that aspect.

pipesdrums
10-18-2005, 09:17 AM
I think they will be equally great for different reasons!

Also, lets not forget about the new GCI woodies :D

PANTSFREE
10-18-2005, 11:28 AM
I'm gonna say Voyage, El Toro looks great but Voyage's layout looks totally obsene.

GAcoasterguy
10-18-2005, 12:22 PM
I think for the firts year, Voyage will be a great coaster. After it's first year (like many other traditional woodies) what starts out as a great ride which pushes the limits, will quickly become rough. Look at a ride like Ghostrider, or Villain.

El Toro will be a coaster that will give a solid ride year after year, and will be re-ridable.

Wes
10-18-2005, 12:41 PM
Voyage. Hands down.

coasterdude28
10-18-2005, 03:07 PM
I love listening to you arrogent New Jersey people.

That is an unfair statement. I am a New Jersey person and I voted for The Voyage. I agree with your other points and I agree that some people are being biased but saying that all NJ people are biased is incorrect.

bigboy_1234567
10-18-2005, 03:12 PM
I think for the firts year, Voyage will be a great coaster. After it's first year (like many other traditional woodies) what starts out as a great ride which pushes the limits, will quickly become rough. Look at a ride like Ghostrider, or Villain.

El Toro will be a coaster that will give a solid ride year after year, and will be re-ridable.

Well, from my understanding, HW takes great care of their woodies, Raven is 10 years old, Ghostrider is 7, and Raven, IMO, is in much better shape.

Joseph
10-18-2005, 03:48 PM
Two very different coasters that are hard to compare with so much bias involved (which type of ride you prefer, which park you prefer, where you live etc.). People are forgetting that a little company out of the PA mountains is building two coasters next year that will also be very different from Voyage and El toro.

In the end I vote for "I dont give a damn, I'll ride all of them next year and then tell you"

I feel the same way about these Gravity Group coasters running PTCs. I'm not saying it will happen, but I worry how well they will age (which is why I am going to ride both next year)

FYI Ghostrider's age and Holiday World maintenece has nothing to do with it. Ghostrider is at a Cedar Fair park ;)

VekomahangNbang
10-18-2005, 03:58 PM
Both of these coasters will be great, and it doesn't really do much good arguing which one will be better before they are both open. I think Ta2KX got it exactly right in what he wrote above. Some people could be bias about a lot of stuff.

Wes
10-18-2005, 03:58 PM
That is an unfair statement. I am a New Jersey person and I voted for The Voyage. I agree with your other points and I agree that some people are being biased but saying that all NJ people are biased is incorrect.

But it IS a true statement that NJ's launch coaster sucks! ;) j/k

Nitro1118
10-18-2005, 05:51 PM
I love listening to you arrogent New Jersey people. Best drop on an any wooden coaster eh?

http://drkssk.fc2web.com/zekkyou/nasu/big/big001.jpg
http://drkssk.fc2web.com/zekkyou/nasu/big/big03.jpg

This steel coaster held the steepest drop record for some time, however I would highly doubt at the time it was built that it even had close to the most thrillling drop.

You don't have the best ride ever, don't be so narrowminded.




Unlike that coaster, Toro will be the 3rd tallest wooden coaster in existent (2nd longest drop). Mix that with the 76 degree drop, and you have the MF of wooden coaster drops.


Of course Toro won't be the best ever. I doubt it will even beat out Boulder Dash for my #1 wooden coaster....but it is still the hybrid of 2 wooden coasters that are consistently ranked in top 10's, compared to a coaster from a group that is still pretty unproven. And while GG has former employees of CCI, the styles are TOTALLY different.

As I said before, Voyage looks fairly boring with its layout, and repetitive. Of course, I am going to ride it before saying definatively which is better (which I will be doing :) ) but by looks and history, Toro has it all on its side. Voyage could be amazing, but a lot of it just seems too drawn out, and the airtime it will deliver is a pretty cheap way to take the record.

VekomahangNbang
10-18-2005, 05:58 PM
As I said before, Voyage looks fairly boring with its layout

I don't call 24 seconds of airtime boring. Sure the airtime isn't as good as El Toro, but butt out of seat isn't boring. The layout looks fine. Since the Voyage is 2000 feet longer than El Toro some parts of the layout might be a little boring, but that doesn't mean the whole ride is boring. Lastly, do you think 90 degree banked turns are boring? I sure don't.

Nitro1118
10-18-2005, 06:04 PM
Nitro has over 20 seconds of airtime (if AC has over 20 seconds, Nitro def. does) yet I consider S:RoS at SFNE, with less airtime, to have much better airtime. I will wait until I ride to judge the airtime, though.

Toro is just more packed, and Voyage just seems too drawn out and nothing stands out except the gimmicks of the tunnels. Voyage will probably be great, but by looks, I think Toro looks better.

Joseph
10-18-2005, 06:08 PM
Honestly, Voyage only mildly impresses me. Same old tricks just in larger quantities. I'm looking forward to Hades more than Voyage... starting out with ejector air before even hitting the lift, traversing a parking lot underground and then adding hills and banked turns.. oh yea, gimme some Hades.

With that, I'd probably like to ride El Toro more just because there aren't many Intamin woodies next year. Fortunately, I should be able to ride two of them next year :) However, they will probably all be great.

coasterfreak14
10-18-2005, 06:24 PM
^Intamin is using just as many "old tricks" as GG is, so you can't really include that one. Do you call a bunch of 90 degree turns "old tricks"?

And to dcs221. Did I sound like I was trying to be rude? Because if I did I'm sorry because I really didn't mean to. I really am sorry.;) But I'm still Voyage all the way! I just wish I could be there when it opens.

Joseph
10-18-2005, 06:38 PM
I've never been on an Intamin. Their ultra-smooth rides and trains and massive amounts of air are all new to me. Banked turns? Same old stuff, just like I said, it's just steeper than stuff from the past (Hades excluded).

Zingoman
10-18-2005, 07:13 PM
I don't think that the turns on Voyage look boring at all. I think they look intense and insane. I think that the tunnels will be something new because we have never seen a coaster drop into 8 tunnels before. I think that the noise suddenly getting louder 8 times for brief periods would be a bit nuts but that will probably be one of the traits that people associate the ride with in the future. you know how it is when you ride a ride like 50 times a week (and I mean that literally so if you don't know what that's like you may not get this completely) and you get the rhythm of every sound, every smell, every sight, and every feeling of the ride embedded into your mind? I think that the smell of the trees and the echoing roar of the trains in the tunnels will be something that gets into your head like that. Very cool! For the people who think that this will be boring or has been seen before, I would be very interested to know what would make it any better in your opinion. You obviously can't please everybody, but I think the people at HW are really stepping up to do an awesome job.

dcs221
10-18-2005, 07:16 PM
OK, it's all good coasterfreak14. *shakes hands*

Cephas
10-18-2005, 07:20 PM
I personally think that El Toro's layout looks rather boring compared to Voyage. It seems as though I'm in the minority (after reading down the thread).

Carowinds 73-03
10-18-2005, 07:48 PM
Both look awesome but by looks Voyage looks the best although i'm not a huge fan of the steel supports.

Nitro1118
10-18-2005, 08:20 PM
I don't think that the turns on Voyage look boring at all. I think they look intense and insane. I think that the tunnels will be something new because we have never seen a coaster drop into 8 tunnels before. I think that the noise suddenly getting louder 8 times for brief periods would be a bit nuts but that will probably be one of the traits that people associate the ride with in the future. you know how it is when you ride a ride like 50 times a week (and I mean that literally so if you don't know what that's like you may not get this completely) and you get the rhythm of every sound, every smell, every sight, and every feeling of the ride embedded into your mind? I think that the smell of the trees and the echoing roar of the trains in the tunnels will be something that gets into your head like that. Very cool! For the people who think that this will be boring or has been seen before, I would be very interested to know what would make it any better in your opinion. You obviously can't please everybody, but I think the people at HW are really stepping up to do an awesome job.


I agree they are doing an awesome job, but what could have made it more "interesting" and attracting to me would have been more normal camelbacks like ST or steeper drops on the turns like Boulder Dash.

What makes Toro so appealing to me is the amount of ejector airtime it will give, the steep drop, and what I am hoping for is the 2nd half to be laterally intense, with airtime on the 2 s-curves. If it delivers like I think it will, it should be great enough to land just behind Boulder Dash.

Joseph
10-18-2005, 08:36 PM
For the people who think that this will be boring or has been seen before, I would be very interested to know what would make it any better in your opinion. You obviously can't please everybody, but I think the people at HW are really stepping up to do an awesome job.

Don't get me wrong I think it will be very good, I just try not to jump to the "it will be awesome! it is my #1 ride already" stuff that some others do. I'm looking forward to all of the woodies being built next year (oh yea, did we forget about Starliner? I can't wait for it either :)) Im just saying that none of them stand out as the clear-cut "must ride" for the year, c'est tout :)

Ta2KX
10-18-2005, 11:51 PM
Also, lets not forget about the new GCI woodies :D

Actually, lets. CCI is back again with those long-missed friends, laterals and air time.


I think for the firts year, Voyage will be a great coaster. After it's first year (like many other traditional woodies) what starts out as a great ride which pushes the limits, will quickly become rough. Look at a ride like Ghostrider, or Villain.

But Villain wasn't good in its first year. According to a direct conversation with a member of CCI in 2003, Villain was one of the worst tracking jobs ever done on a wood coaster. From what other people have said, in recent years it's running "better".

Ghostrider, I haven't personally ridden, I don't know what to say, except I feel bad for all of its avid fans if that ride really isn't properly maintained over the off-season. A CCI is a quality product, and the batch of 1999 were some the best construction jobs to date. Cedar Fair is well known for their track record of allowing once great woodies to slip into anonymity. I'll consider Shivering Timbers an outlier, it has a rank and reputation to maintain.

JamminJ
10-19-2005, 02:50 PM
The fact that the Beech Bend woodie has not been included in this poll, let alone even been mentioned throughout the topic, makes this poll FLA\/\/ED.

I am not saying it will be better than either Voyage or Toro but it at least deserves a mention.

Cephas
10-19-2005, 03:07 PM
Both look awesome but by looks Voyage looks the best although i'm not a huge fan of the steel supports.
What do you have against steel supports? Your riding on wood track and crossties, no matter what the support structure underneath it may be made of.

VekomahangNbang
10-19-2005, 03:12 PM
Some of you guys need to give Gravity Group a chance. They don't even have any coasters over 6 months old so how can you predict their coasters will get rough after a year or two.

Matt M
10-19-2005, 03:13 PM
I agree they are doing an awesome job, but what could have made it more "interesting" and attracting to me would have been more normal camelbacks like ST or steeper drops on the turns like Boulder Dash.

What makes Toro so appealing to me is the amount of ejector airtime it will give, the steep drop, and what I am hoping for is the 2nd half to be laterally intense, with airtime on the 2 s-curves. If it delivers like I think it will, it should be great enough to land just behind Boulder Dash.

The second half probably won't be very laterally intense because Intamin heartlines their wooden coasters, so don't count on getting shoved around in the transitions.

DPCMAN
10-19-2005, 03:30 PM
I definately think that The Voyage looks to be a better coaster than El Toro. It's really hard to pick which one is going to be better but the tunnels on Voyage are what gives it the edge in my book.

Nitro1118
10-19-2005, 03:37 PM
The second half probably won't be very laterally intense because Intamin heartlines their wooden coasters, so don't count on getting shoved around in the transitions.

It doesn't need to be smash'em into the sides laterals. It can be just like the megas- enough to be comfy, and positive g's.

Joseph
10-19-2005, 04:18 PM
Some of you guys need to give Gravity Group a chance. They don't even have any coasters over 6 months old so how can you predict their coasters will get rough after a year or two.

You do realize these guys have been around, just in the form of another company in the past (Custom Coasters). Hence, the comparisons. It's not far fetched at all to predict the successes or failures of Gravity Group coasters.

slnewbus
10-19-2005, 05:02 PM
The Voyage is the only true wooden coaster in this poll, so I have to pick The Voyage. Plus, it is in what appears to be the new wooden coaster capital of the world.

Thunderhawk
10-19-2005, 08:29 PM
The only true wooden coaster in the poll?

They both look great. I really wish I can ride both next year, but realistically, the only one I'll ride is El Toro. For that, I'll give El Toro the advantage, just because I actually get to ride it next year.

VekomahangNbang
10-19-2005, 08:41 PM
The Voyage is the only true wooden coaster in this poll, so I have to pick The Voyage. Plus, it is in what appears to be the new wooden coaster capital of the world.

True wooden coaster? What exactly do you mean by that? And how does being in the wooden coaster capital of the world make the ride better? That doesn't add much to the actual ride experience.

slnewbus
10-19-2005, 09:24 PM
Let me rephrase. Only traditional wood coaster. El Toro does look good, and it appears to be the only one that I will get to ride.

GAcoasterguy
10-19-2005, 09:32 PM
How is Voyage any more of a "traditonal" or "true" wooden coaster? It is being built on a steel structure, so if anything it is the one that's not a "true" woodie.

Leo C
10-19-2005, 10:51 PM
I'm reluctant to comment about either going against the other.

TheKlockster
10-20-2005, 03:12 AM
I don't want to vote till I ride both of them. I will for sure be riding Voyage next year - since it is so close. Probably won't get El Toro till 07 or 08 though...

Matt M
10-20-2005, 07:53 AM
How is Voyage any more of a "traditonal" or "true" wooden coaster? It is being built on a steel structure, so if anything it is the one that's not a "true" woodie.

Astroland's Cyclone uses a steel structure.

pipesdrums
10-20-2005, 10:28 AM
The fact that the Beech Bend woodie has not been included in this poll, let alone even been mentioned throughout the topic, makes this poll FLA\/\/ED.

I am not saying it will be better than either Voyage or Toro but it at least deserves a mention.

VV


I think they will be equally great for different reasons!

Also, lets not forget about the new GCI woodies :D

Zing! But yeah, I definatly agree!

Marcus
10-20-2005, 11:13 AM
The fact that the Beech Bend woodie has not been included in this poll, let alone even been mentioned throughout the topic, makes this poll FLA\/\/ED.

Yeah I left Beech Bend out for a reason. I wanted to make a poll of wood coasters of 2006 that were of or above the level of decent. And the fact that it's barely been mentioned in the thread goes to show what people think of GCIs.

pipesdrums
10-20-2005, 11:18 AM
Because it is so obvious that Thunderhead and Ozark Wildcat are below the decent level. :rolleyes:

Joseph
10-20-2005, 12:50 PM
Yeah I left Beech Bend out for a reason. I wanted to make a poll of wood coasters of 2006 that were of or above the level of decent. And the fact that it's barely been mentioned in the thread goes to show what people think of GCIs.

eh, sounds more like what you think of GCIs that what other people think. Me? I remember two GCIs finishing in the top 10 of the GTA awards and in the top 20 of Mitch's poll. Suffice to say that the percentage of CCIs in the top 20 of mitch's poll was proportional to the percentage of GCIs... what I'm getting at is that I think that people think pretty highly of GCI ;)

Beech Bend? Yea, it looks pretty good, but I actually can't wait to ride the PowerPark woodie myself :cool:

Ta2KX
10-20-2005, 04:40 PM
How is Voyage any more of a "traditonal" or "true" wooden coaster? It is being built on a steel structure, so if anything it is the one that's not a "true" woodie.

Wow, if I was 35 and was going to say something that stupid here, I would've at least lied about my age and said I was 13. I think it'd take a 13 year old's mentality to go to Hershey Park, and yet not Knoebles. You went to Six Flags Darien Lake, and you didn't ride the Silver Comet at Martin's Fantasy Island. I don't know how far of a drive it was for you, but I certainly didn't travel 240 miles just for a hyper. Is this right, you live in NJ and you have not been on the Coney Cyclone? I'll tell you what, if I was 35, I would've made an effort to ride the Idora Wildcat, Elitch's Twister, and Crystal Beach Comet before I'd ever make a statement about what is a true woodie.


Because it is so obvious that Thunderhead and Ozark Wildcat are below the decent level. :rolleyes:


It's so obvious, is it? I've said enough in the past about Thunderhead, I think today I'll just cover people's stupidity. Why don't you elaborate, why don't you tell me what you personally thought about Thunderhead when you rode it? Or tell me about Ozark Wildcat, I will admit i haven't been on that one. Another fine patron of Darien Lake who jumped ship on Silver Comet.


eh, sounds more like what you think of GCIs that what other people think. Me? I remember two GCIs finishing in the top 10 of the GTA awards and in the top 20 of Mitch's poll. Suffice to say that the percentage of CCIs in the top 20 of mitch's poll was proportional to the percentage of GCIs... what I'm getting at is that I think that people think pretty highly of GCI ;)

2 GCI's in the top 20 of the most comprehensive wood coaster poll in existence, now I'll have to give GCI some props there. But, I did happen to see 6 CCI's in the top 10, and in fact half of the top 20 are CCI's. I'm not going to say I'm completely anti-GCI, but Gwazi, Lightning Racer, and Thunderhead did not impress in the slightest, they're amusing, though, I guess. Oh and if GCI's are that good that a whole 2 of them appeared in the top 10, why isn't Holiday World building a GCI?

And I wasn't going to even mention the GTA's, and I could simply say that Thunderhead at #1 is a complete and utter joke, but then I saw Beast at #8 and I laughed so hard I forgot where I was and what I was even doing.

slnewbus
10-20-2005, 04:50 PM
If anyone knows anything about Intamin woodies, they are PREFAB AKA Not traditional track. The track is what gives wooden coasters their feel, not the structure.

VekomahangNbang
10-20-2005, 05:22 PM
Yeah I left Beech Bend out for a reason. I wanted to make a poll of wood coasters of 2006 that were of or above the level of decent. And the fact that it's barely been mentioned in the thread goes to show what people think of GCIs.

What is wrong with GCI coasters? If you think Ozark Wildcat, Thunderhead, and Lightning Racer are crap, then you need to ride the rides or if you can't then you need to read more GCI ride reviews. I know Amusement Today doesn't tell the whole tale, but they have all of those in the top 16, with Thunderhead being number 1 and Lightning Racer being the best wooden racers. The Beech Bend coaster won't be the best, but just because it doesn't compare to the Voyage or El Toro doesn't mean it will be crap.

Ta2KX, what do you have against Thunderhead. I thought it was a pretty complete ride with airtime, speed, and laterals, but I do agree with you in the fact that it shouldn't be number 1. But it does deserve at least a top 10 mention.

coasterdave
10-20-2005, 05:28 PM
I see Mr. GCI Sucks is at it once again. I know I should not even reply since it appears this topic has went from a poll to a CCI vs GCI thread. Seems that some people can not respect people's view on what they think is the best wooden coaster. So what Thunderhead won a Golden Ticket and so what the crappy Beast is ranked abit higher than what you think and what I think is high also.

Each person has their taste in what they want in a woodie and I know people are not going to agree, but atleast respect people's views. You will not lose any sleep because Person A thinks Thunderhead is better or Person B thinks Raven rules. It may be based on when they rode the coaster and what such and such is. Move on and get this baby back on topic.

And I agree if you are going to have a poll about the newest Woddies that are opening in 2006, then you really need to list them all and do not use the lame excuse that noone talks about it. All I do know is that I am going to enjoy taking a trip to ride all three of them in 2006 and you never know. I might even have to place afew of them in the few polls that I vote in.

Joseph
10-20-2005, 06:04 PM
2 GCI's in the top 20 of the most comprehensive wood coaster poll in existence, now I'll have to give GCI some props there. But, I did happen to see 6 CCI's in the top 10, and in fact half of the top 20 are CCI's.
Yea which is why I said go with the percentages since there are five times as many CCIs as GCIs. Both are very good companies to me.


Oh and if GCI's are that good that a whole 2 of them appeared in the top 10, why isn't Holiday World building a GCI?
Past (and successful) experience, and I would even want to say money (Voyage already anchors the biggest expansion in park history, and GCIs are quite a bit more expensive than their counterparts)


And I wasn't going to even mention the GTA's, and I could simply say that Thunderhead at #1 is a complete and utter joke, but then I saw Beast at #8 and I laughed so hard I forgot where I was and what I was even doing.
While I agree that Beast finishing #8 is a joke and that the GTAs aren't very good, that is just your opinion that it isn't top notch, while there are an abundance of enthusiasts I've met at events and in travels that love the thing.

By the way if it makes you feel better I may have Thunderhead at #1 but its followed up by four CCIs, and when I went to Darien Lake I did make a trip to Martin's and loved Silver Comet so much that I ended up going to the park a second time even though it was out of my way and offered little else :)

redunzelizer
10-20-2005, 06:51 PM
My honest condolences go to all these people out there, who are so much oversaturated, that they are not any more able to enjoy 98.7% of the existing coasters on this planet. It must be a great pain to visit all these parks and not beeing able to ride anything because it's just not as great as "[*place your dogmatics here*]" :p :D

redunzelizer ;)

GAcoasterguy
10-20-2005, 08:48 PM
Wow, if I was 35 and was going to say something that stupid here, I would've at least lied about my age and said I was 13. I think it'd take a 13 year old's mentality to go to Hershey Park, and yet not Knoebles. You went to Six Flags Darien Lake, and you didn't ride the Silver Comet at Martin's Fantasy Island. I don't know how far of a drive it was for you, but I certainly didn't travel 240 miles just for a hyper.
Who says I went to Darrien Lake just to go to DL? I was going to Canada and knew DL was on the way, so since it was FREE with my season pass, I stopped in. I went to Hershey because I had FREE passes. Sorry I didn't stop at every crap hole park on the way...


Is this right, you live in NJ and you have not been on the Coney Cyclone? I'll tell you what, if I was 35, I would've made an effort to ride the Idora Wildcat, Elitch's Twister, and Crystal Beach Comet before I'd ever make a statement about what is a true woodie.

I'm so glad you have all the answers (I'm not a 19 year old who knows everything). Most of the parks I've been to haven't been coaster trips, just places I happened to be passing. No, I haven't been on the Cyclone. The mystical allure of Coney Island has never appealed to me. After working at SFGAdv for 6 seasons, I had enough of the kind of people who go there coming to me, I don't need to go to them.

My point was to say El Toro is not a "true" wooden coater is a load of crap. It doesn't matter if the rails are prefabricated or built on site, the ride is 90% WOOD. I'm not arguing that the Cyclone, Hades, Voyage and every other wooden coaster with a steel structure aren't wooden coasters (even though they are only about 15% wood), just that El Toro is going to be just as much a true woodie, if not more so.

Ta2KX
10-20-2005, 09:21 PM
In all honesty, I regard GCI as a good company, and what they're doing with their designs isn't easy. They incorporate a little Prior & Church in their coasters, attempt to turn riders sideways, while still maintaining speed, and here's the clincher -- their coasters are built for the whole family. Considering some the parks for which GCI has built coasters: Hershey, Celebation City, and now Beech Bend and PowerPark I realize these are family parks. They were never looking for a violent, 20's style wood coaster, and I'm certain GCI gave them what they asked for. My belief is GCI hasn't had the opportunity to really push an extreme design. I'm thankful for the development of the Millennium Flyer trains, I strongly doubt many of you would favor GCI as much without them. So, while the current GCI's haven't spiked my interest, I'm just waiting for the company to get the chance to build something of the scale of Boss or Hades. Come to think of it, think of how much better Mean Streak and Hercules could have been if they were built with GCI's current technology.

I'll most likely ride the GCI at Beech Bend next year, since it is close to Holiday World and Thunder Run at SFKK. I give every coaster i ride a fair chance, I didn't think anything much of Raven or Phoenix before I rode them. I don't think the new GCI looks too impressive, but I hope I'm wrong and it's a beastly ride.

And GAcoasterguy, wood coasters aside, you're just plain angry.

coastermaniac85
10-22-2005, 07:33 PM
Where are the 90 degree turns on "The Voyage"? I can't seem to find them. Are they near the turnaround?

coasterlove
10-22-2005, 09:46 PM
[Cue music]The thread, the thread, the thread is on fire (due to all the borderline flaming).

Can't we just have a nice friendly conversation?

Anyway, I think both are awesome looking but I have to give it to....The Voyage. To those who say it looks boring, you must not have been on Hades. The Voyage looks to be a faster, steeper, longer, more twisted, more airtime, more tunnels, more just about everything that made Hades great. Hades was unbelieveable and to think that The Voyage might even be better makes me shake with excitement.

I do think El Toro looks great. The drop looks amazing and just looks really impressive. The fact that it might be smoother than a traditional woodie doesn't bother me. I don't always care for woodies that are very shaky or however you want to call it. There's a fine line between shaky/bouncy and being rough when it comes to wooden coasters. I think Viper at SFGAm is fairly smooth and I certainly like that ride. So if El Toro is smooth in that way to an extent, I'll definitely love the ride.

I just have to award it now to the Voyage though. I've never seen a video for a ride that wasn't impressive in speed or height in the way Millennium Force, Top Thrill Dragster or others like it are that made me just say wow in the way that The Voyage did. I couldn't believe how amazing it looked. It was just nonstop hills, turns, tunnels throughout the whole ride and the pace never seems to let up for 6,000+ft. It looks excellent.

coastermaniac85
10-23-2005, 02:06 AM
Is the height of Voyage 173 ft? Because I heard from sources that Voyage has a 163 ft lift hill but the terrain is 10ft lower than normal. So would the height be how tall the lift hill is or the difference between the highest point and the ground below that. Because the official website says Voyage is 173 ft tall.

coastermaniac85
10-23-2005, 05:18 PM
Will Voyage have an on-ride photo near the drop and the end? Because if I remember, the Raven and Legend all had one.

Martin
03-14-2006, 07:36 PM
Sorry to bump this, but I was thinking about this topic, and it had been a nice debate. Now that it is 5 months later, and both coasters have more substantial progress what is everyone's opinion now that the season for Holiday World and SFGadv is approaching? Who wins the battle?

JordanMullins
03-14-2006, 09:00 PM
Both are record breakers, but Voyage is the clear winner, its not about how steep a drop is, its about the air time, and the excitement, both coasters have these, but Voyage has more.

CP Maverick
03-14-2006, 09:43 PM
How did a GG vs IAG topic turn into CCI vs GCI? And with that, I'll take GCIs Wildcat with PTCs over anything they put MilFlyers on.

As for this poll, I think Voyage will be the more complete coaster. Toro just seems too short to fully appreciate the amount of energy a near 200ft lift will give you. But, I won't be going back to Jersey anytime soon to either prove or disprove this.

Nitro1118
03-14-2006, 10:29 PM
Both are record breakers, but Voyage is the clear winner, its not about how steep a drop is, its about the air time, and the excitement, both coasters have these, but Voyage has more.

AH! Toro will have mor extreme airtime, while Voyage will ahve MORE airtime. So while I can see you saying Voyage wins in airtime department, don't think thyat Toro won't have TONS of airtime, because it will.

As I said before in this and other topics, Voyage is definately better, it is just so complete. But I feel because of Voyage, Toro is being severely underrated (and for that matter, also Kentucky Rumbler).

Martin
05-08-2006, 06:59 AM
The Voyage looks very, very good after reading reviews and seeing POV videos. We shall see how El Toro compares to Voyage when it starts testing, and when we can get some POV's on Media Day.

Matt M
05-08-2006, 08:13 AM
AH! Toro will have mor extreme airtime, while Voyage will ahve MORE airtime. So while I can see you saying Voyage wins in airtime department, don't think thyat Toro won't have TONS of airtime, because it will.

As I said before in this and other topics, Voyage is definately better, it is just so complete. But I feel because of Voyage, Toro is being severely underrated (and for that matter, also Kentucky Rumbler).

El Toro won't have more extreme air save maybe 1 drop because of the hill shaping. It'll probably end up like a B&M hyper with bad floaty air. Don't talk to me about Colossus because it uses different hill styles. The first drop will probably pwn, the big hills afterwards will be "blah", and then the twisty section kinda "blah". I don't have much faith in the twisty section as it is heartlined.

Jerry S
05-08-2006, 11:27 AM
^That could still mean high g's in the twisty section. Also, no offense, but you seem to act like you know how the hill shaping can totally affect the coasters, or if they're really that different even, but I don't tihnk it's true, I'm sure Intamin wouldn't change their design for the worse, they know better than you.

Overall, I honestly think the two coasters will tie up if you use the jellybean scale. Maybe El Toro will have the smoothness, the stronger airtime, and the steeper drops, but Voyage will have the very long track length, terrain, and tunnels. Both rides have their own twisty curvy parts, both have their big hills with air parts, but people are making it more of a competition than Holiday World or SFGAdv thought it would be.

I've seen the Voyage video, and it was better than I first thought it was, but I don't think that means it's so much better than El Toro.

Martin
05-08-2006, 08:50 PM
The first part looks pretty kick ass to me:
http://www.amusementpics.com/2006%20Coaster/050506-016.jpg

Nitro1118
05-08-2006, 09:16 PM
El Toro won't have more extreme air save maybe 1 drop because of the hill shaping. It'll probably end up like a B&M hyper with bad floaty air. Don't talk to me about Colossus because it uses different hill styles. The first drop will probably pwn, the big hills afterwards will be "blah", and then the twisty section kinda "blah". I don't have much faith in the twisty section as it is heartlined.

You're gonna be so wrong about the airtime. The hills are steeper than Colossos, huge difference in height of drop to 1st/2nd camelback....in other words, there's gonna be some insane ejector airtime. No floaty crap that you seem to think it will have.

As for the twister section, it will probably have some nice positive G's and be lots of fun because it will be taken at high speeds.

Chris L
05-08-2006, 09:20 PM
El Toro has yet to carry passengers, so I don't think a fair matchup is in place until both coasters are operational. But as far as speculating which one is better, based on photographs and videos, I would have to say The Voyage will take the pie, easily. Like stated above, it's just much more "complete" of a wood coaster. El Toro's track length is much too short for a coaster of that height. That's not saying El Toro won't be a good coaster, but we're doing a matchup here and it looks like The Voyage won't have much competition in it.

Nitro1118
05-08-2006, 09:25 PM
^Agreed. Voyage will probably be a top 2-3 wooden coaster in every single poll by November. But, Toro is basically an edgier Colossos (steeper drop, gonna have more intense airtime, and the twister section), and sicne Colossos is rated a top 10 or so wooden coaster, Toro will be up there with Voyage.

BGWfanatic
05-08-2006, 09:34 PM
Im gonna say El Toro's first section will beat Voyages First part. While Voyages middle and ending will beat El Toro's Big time. So my final vote is going for Voyage.

Leo C
05-08-2006, 11:06 PM
I'm still waiting and waiting to give a better opinion in this - even if I won't be able to ride The Voyage for years. I still have to admire the all wood structure and the runaway appeal El Toro will have in the more GP mainstream world of the New York - Philadelphia market.

Screamweaver
05-09-2006, 12:58 AM
LoL!

If the fanboys have their way, Voyage and El Toro will sit in the #1 and #2 spots at the end of the year. Not bad for first year coasters.

Actually, I think things might look somewhat like this:

1) Voyage
2) Thunderhead
3) Hades
4) El Toro
5) Raven (look for Raven to make a huge jump with all the attention focused on Voyage, not to mention the new track work).

Canobie Coaster
05-15-2006, 06:53 AM
I would definitely prefer the Voyage because I have been on a few CCI coasters (Gravity Group was formed by people from CCI), while I have never been on an Intamin wooden coaster. The Voyage is much longer (about 2,000 feet longer), is a ride about a minute longer, and has more air-time.

Martin
05-15-2006, 06:10 PM
^ Yes but you still fail to read what tons of people have said about comparing the airtime on both of these coasters. Voyage will obviously have more airtime in general. However it seems from the shaping of El Toro's hills and the hight difference from the drop to the first few hills, El Toro will have, more extreme airtime if you will. Obviously there is no way to tell at this point since El Toro has yet to have a human rider, but this is just what people have been speculating if you have read the thread.

Matt M
05-15-2006, 06:21 PM
However it seems from the shaping of El Toro's hills and the hight difference from the drop to the first few hills, El Toro will have, more extreme airtime if you will.

No.

The badly designed arrow style hills such as the ones found on Magnum are best shaped for air. A parabola is best shaped for floater air, which is crap. I really doubt it'll have the tremendous air you think it will because if you're going off of Heide Park's woodie and Balder then you have notice that both rides don't have the incredibly parabolic hills this sucker has.

Martin
05-15-2006, 07:05 PM
Yes.

First off I was comparing Voyage's airtime to El Toro's, not to Arrow hypers. Why does S:RoS have good airtime if it's hills are parabolas?

Sorry I don't call the below photo "incredibly parabolic":
http://www.amusementpics.com/2006%20Coaster/050506-016.jpg

magnum_man1989
05-15-2006, 07:42 PM
24 secs of airtime? is that a world record among coasters i really dont pay attention to that stuff. Anyway i cant vote because i havent ridden them but Id rather ride voyage.

VekomahangNbang
05-15-2006, 10:57 PM
This should be closed and reopen only when someone non fanboy has ridden both coasters.

Nitro1118
05-15-2006, 11:18 PM
No.

The badly designed arrow style hills such as the ones found on Magnum are best shaped for air. A parabola is best shaped for floater air, which is crap. I really doubt it'll have the tremendous air you think it will because if you're going off of Heide Park's woodie and Balder then you have notice that both rides don't have the incredibly parabolic hills this sucker has.

Colossos' hills are exactly the same:

http://www.gainsider.com/gallery/images/051606kkcrane2.jpg

http://pictures.rcdb.com/picmax/heide-park/colossos4.jpg

The only difference is Toro's camelbacks have steeper sides, but the shaping is practically the same. Now mix in the height difference and the speed it will rocket through them, it will have loads of airtime.

redunzelizer
05-16-2006, 01:25 AM
Pleas don't talk too much about parabolas, or even about those technically primitive Magnum hills. Both of these shapes have very bad "airtime economics" in relation to size/geometry and effect duration (=airtime length), the latter giving you jerks in case which are not tolerable within an advanced design like El Toro.

I'm not able to tell exactly what particular functions these guys actually have used with Colossos, Balder and El Toro. But believe me - starting with (partial) clothoids, 5th, 6th or even higher order polynomials, as well as iterating and differential equations optimized for said duration and intensity progress - there are a couple of wicked solutions to chose from, most likely even separately applied for each hill. One could imagine that the same smartness apllies for the Voyage, of course!

BTW, same goes for any "critical" dips, where there are numerous methods to spread high g-forces along the whole drop - dip - upward-sequence without exceeding set limits, getting way shorter(!) valleys as with any plain circle segment.

I'd definitely not underestimate modern rollercoaster designers... ;)


P.S. I'll take both, if you don't mind! :D

-American Viper
05-16-2006, 05:17 PM
I''m going to have to go with Voyage. My Breakdown:

Height-ET
Drop-ET
Airtime-Voyage
Turns-Voyage
Sensation of speed-Voyage
Location-Voyage
One that feels better after hour line-Voyage

El toro has its drop, airtime hills, and turns, but Voyage does the same with them and turns it into a coaster with 2000 more feet than its wanna-be friend. ;)

coasterdude28
05-16-2006, 05:41 PM
We know that Voyage has great airtime. We know that ET most likely will have EXTREME airtime, but not as much. For anyone saying that ET will lack airtime, please look at these. The spots that I indicated WILL have airtime. Especially in the first picture.

Pictures taken by GACoasterguy

Nitro1118
05-16-2006, 09:44 PM
First drop, 2 camelbacks, small bunny hop (that will only give floater airtime), the hill over RT, and the first non inverted corkscrew will all give great airtime.

coasterdude28
05-16-2006, 09:46 PM
And, on top of the airtime, almost every hill has a headchopper.

VekomahangNbang
05-16-2006, 09:49 PM
I''m going to have to go with Voyage. My Breakdown:

El Toro hasn't even opened yet, so shutup.

Nitro1118
05-16-2006, 09:49 PM
Yo one thing though, the hill in your first pic will only have floater airtime. It is VERY drawn out and similar to Colossos', which is said to only have floater.

coasterdude28
05-17-2006, 03:33 PM
Floater airtime is still airtime.

Nitro1118
05-17-2006, 03:37 PM
Yes, but you said "especially in the 1st pic" where you pointed to that hill. The 1st 2 camelbacks will have much stronger airtime.

Joseph
05-18-2006, 04:27 AM
We know that Voyage has great airtime.
That is not a fact, just as my opinion is not a fact. It had very good airtime but wasn't as abundant as I would have exected and a lot of it is more "pop"-y than serious ejector. It suprised me, but that's not to say it didnt still rock my socks (if I wore socks, of course)

I'm really starting to think that El Toro will be a sleeper pick and could be better than Voyage to more than expected.

Chris L
05-18-2006, 04:32 AM
Floater airtime is still airtime.

Good call. :) It's funny when enthusiasts use "just" right before floater airtime. Ejector or floater, airtime is airtime!



I'm really starting to think that El Toro will be a sleeper pick and could be better than Voyage to more than expected.

Let's hope so! From what I've heard about The Voyage so far, the general census is that it's a spectacular ride, with very few complaints about anything. I hope to hear the same about El Toro, although I'm a bit skeptical.

Martin
05-29-2006, 06:01 PM
El Toro's first testing video (http://www.gainsider.com/videos/052806-ettestingsmall.wmv). Now we can begin to compare and contrast.

Brian F
05-29-2006, 10:15 PM
It's really kind of silly to speculate until someone has ridden both. From the pictures, El Toro looks to be a standard out and back coaster, nothing new or innovative. I'm not saying that's a bad thing- traditional out and back woodies are my favorites. If it's got good air, especially ejector air, it should be awesome. Voyage has lots of air, but it is pretty much all floater. Floater air is great, but I do like a mix.

As far as being innovative, It doesn't appear that El Toro even deserves mention in the same sentence with Voyage. Voyage is truly non-stop excitement. You have a VERY brief pause on the MCBR- other than that, it's fast and wild all the way to the final brake run, including an absolutely fantastic finish. Gravity Group and Will koch wanted to make something very unique, and they certainly succeeded. Some of the non-standard elements of the ride really add a lot to it. Just before you start into the turnaround, there is a wicked little airtime dip that is really great. The third drop in the triple down gives some great air, and since it's in the dark, you can't anticipate it until you've got a couple of rides in.

As I said, this thread is, for now, pretty much just a fanboy shouting match. Until ET opens, and someone rides both, nobody's opinion really means very much.

Martin
05-30-2006, 06:26 AM
^ El Toro does have a few twister elements in it's second half and obviously the record 76 degree drop on a wooden coaster.

Almost
05-30-2006, 08:09 AM
...And the first cable lift on a woodie, ever. Voyage is easily the most complete woodie ever, but El Toro is basically an Intamin Mega made out of wood.

I'd still rather ride The Voyage, but El Toro ain't half bad either.

Joseph
05-30-2006, 09:41 AM
What defines "most complete"?

Do you mean it has the largest variety of stuff? If so, then yes, it is very complete. It has speed, airtime, laterals, terrain... tons of stuff. But so does Boulder Dash, and at least 3 of those aforementioned traits are done better on Boulder Dash. Of course, there's no denying that Voyage pulls these together very well either, and I won't complain about having several awesome woodies out there. :-)

I hope I can ride El Toro this year.

Marcus
05-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Wow, this thread is still going?

After recently riding Voyage at Holiwood Nights and having it absolutely destroying my top wood coasters including Raven, Boulder Dash, Shivering Timbers, Phoenix, Thunderhead, and many more. I would like switch my vote until I finally get a chance to ride El Toro.

Almost
05-30-2006, 05:02 PM
What defines "most complete"?

Do you mean it has the largest variety of stuff? If so, then yes, it is very complete. It has speed, airtime, laterals, terrain... tons of stuff. But so does Boulder Dash, and at least 3 of those aforementioned traits are done better on Boulder Dash. Of course, there's no denying that Voyage pulls these together very well either, and I won't complain about having several awesome woodies out there. :-)

I hope I can ride El Toro this year.

Yes, I meant biggest variety of elements.

Boulder Dash looks great too, just Voyage is 1,700 ft and change longer and does every part of that list alot. Which is why I see it as the best all around woodie.

stevetothekizzo
05-30-2006, 05:29 PM
Voyage. Easily. The banked curves, underground passes, quick drops, trees. Voyage is the coaster I will travel from Phoenix just to ride.

Six Flags Fan
05-30-2006, 06:58 PM
I say El Toro, since it's the 1st Intamin Pre-Fab Woodie in North America, and I don't like PTC trains that much.

cameroncrazie13
06-01-2006, 03:22 PM
IMO, I think that Voyage looks better. I haven't ridden it, but just the combination of steepness, hills, 90 degree banked turns, ect. is too much to pass by.

FLCC Josh
06-01-2006, 04:02 PM
Nothing....NOTHING will be able to touch Voyage for a long time to come! The Gravity Group has seriously blown everyone out of the water with this monster.

chuck nungester
06-01-2006, 08:21 PM
Gotta agree with Floriday Coaster CLub Josh here.

The voyage just put a neutron bomb on every other coaster on the planet.

WOW, is too tame a word for a coaster that beats just about everything you've ridden before combined.

Chuck

Screamweaver
06-02-2006, 01:30 AM
The funny things about this is these two coasters will be compared for the next few years, with nearly 98 percent of people placing Voyage much higher. A masterpiece vs a solid airtime speed machine. Doesn't seem fair does it? ;)

ravenrider
06-07-2006, 12:57 PM
I have to say VOYAGE! Hands down, El toro will be good but after riding some great oldies like Idora park Wildcat, Mr. Twister, and many more Voyage blew past everyhting including some of my All time favorites.

CrymeLord
06-07-2006, 01:22 PM
This really is no contest. El Toro is just another coaster. It looks good and fun, and I'm anxious to ride it. Voyage is on another level.

I just rode it a couple weeks ago. It is certainly one of the best. It makes you take notice. It's too early for me to put it on the top of my list (I'll have to sit on that for awhile) which is currently reserved for MF and Beast (1 and 1a).

Nitro1118
06-07-2006, 03:38 PM
Wow, Toro is being really, REALLY underrated by everyone because of Voyage. Need we forget that Balder was #1 woodie last year, and Colossos top 10? Toro will be better than Colossos, and more complete of a ride than Balder.

This summer I will be riding both, so I will give a complete comparison come August.

Bowserjoe
06-07-2006, 09:15 PM
This really is no contest. El Toro is just another coaster. It looks good and fun, and I'm anxious to ride it. Voyage is on another level.

I just rode it a couple weeks ago. It is certainly one of the best. It makes you take notice. It's too early for me to put it on the top of my list (I'll have to sit on that for awhile) which is currently reserved for MF and Beast (1 and 1a).

Beast? #1? LOL! That made me chuckle. Beast looks so boring because it's all just flat sections. They could've done so much more with it.


As for El Toro, I agree it is being very underrated. I don't know if it occured to anyone else, but El Toro, is pretty much the wood equivalent of SRoS, which is also a chart topper. I think El Toro will have much better airtime. ANY person in the world could also tell you in 2 seconds that ET's drop will be better than Voyage's. The one thing I like better about Voyage is the tunnels. I wish ET had one.

Hank
06-07-2006, 09:47 PM
I have never looked at this topic before, but one could think that it was about sex! Sex on a cruise ship with a very large "you know what"!

Griswold
06-07-2006, 10:44 PM
I saw God 5 times on Voyage. No joke. It was so intense, you were begging for it to end!

Brian F
06-08-2006, 04:33 AM
^ I wasn't. :)

The only good thing about it ending was that I got to get back on.

But you're right about it being intense. I would easily name it the most intense coaster I've ever been on.

One other feather in Voyage's cap, for whatever it's worth, is that the airtime is as good in the front seat as it is anywhere. On many coasters, deciding where to sit is a tradeoff between good view and good air- not this one.

CrymeLord
06-08-2006, 08:52 AM
Beast? #1? LOL! That made me chuckle. Beast looks so boring because it's all just flat sections. They could've done so much more with it.
I'm sorry you cannot appreciate the greatness of Beast. I have never ridden its equal. Those "flat" sections generate intense speed rushing through the woods, and the ending has never been equalled. Ever (and I doubt it ever will be).

If they had done anything different, it would be a lesser ride. Voyage and MF have come close (actually I had MF highest on my list before I rode Beast). I just rode Raven and Legend for the first time as well. Both felt ordinary in comparison.

slipknot8527
06-08-2006, 07:01 PM
Dude, BowserJoe, don't judge Beast by how it looks. I made that misktake, and i was thanking baby Jesus that there were trims.....we were still going way too fast. And that last helix will make you beg for mercy.

Martin
06-11-2006, 10:31 PM
El Toro has been getting some pretty amazing reviews. This video on YouTube shows how fast the train flies over the first airtime hill:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyl8EMXQCsY&eurl=

Jerry S
06-11-2006, 10:57 PM
El Toro did fly over the hill. Just watching it baffled me as to how it could just fly over. The entire really long train had airtime all over, because it just flew over every hill. No pushing no pulling, just flying. It was awesome.

Almost
06-11-2006, 10:58 PM
After riding today, El Toro. Seriously, best ride ever. INCREDIBLE ejector every hill, even the small one on the return trip, more air on that hill than on Nitro.

Go to Great Adventure, NOW! and ride it!

coasterdude28
06-11-2006, 11:00 PM
I saw one guy wearing a Voyage shirt today. I was going to talk to him and get his comparrison, but he walked away. Maybe he is a member here.

I cannot say this enough. ET is AMAZING!

Leo C
06-11-2006, 11:03 PM
I can only imagine what The Voyage is and take that picture when I ride El Toro this week. I believe most likely it will be Monday night. No doubt - We have real contenders here :)

BGWfanatic
06-11-2006, 11:04 PM
i was thinking deffinately Voyage all this time, up until today, after reading all these reviews, i dont know, El Toro may come out the winner!

I love DW
06-11-2006, 11:39 PM
Ok here I go, I have never rode either but i'm going to ride Voyage in Aug. and I can't wait until then. But I agree with someone else on another board you can't really call Voyage a wooden coaster because it has steal supports with a wooden track so it's not really a true wooden coaster it's a hybird.

I love DW
06-11-2006, 11:46 PM
Wow, Toro is being really, REALLY underrated by everyone because of Voyage. Need we forget that Balder was #1 woodie last year, and Colossos top 10? Toro will be better than Colossos, and more complete of a ride than Balder.

This summer I will be riding both, so I will give a complete comparison come August.

Ok if you are talking about the Golden Ticket Awards your wrong. Boulder if that's what you mean was #2. Dollywood's Thunderhead was #1 according to the 2005 Golden Ticket Awards.

BGWfanatic
06-12-2006, 12:00 AM
Ok here I go, I have never rode either but i'm going to ride Voyage in Aug. and I can't wait until then. But I agree with someone else on another board you can't really call Voyage a wooden coaster because it has steal supports with a wooden track so it's not really a true wooden coaster it's a hybird.

The track is wood, therefore i consider it a wooden coaster. And anyways the kind of steel supports that are on Voyage really arent that different then having wooden ones.

I love DW
06-12-2006, 12:17 AM
That makes sense but I still say it's a hybird. Because my personal opinion for it to be a true wooden coaster it has to have wooden track and supports. But I'm sure it's a good coaster though. I can't wait to ride it.

Chris L
06-12-2006, 12:27 AM
^ A roller coaster isn't defined as wood or steel based on its supports - because using your way of thinking, then Cedar Point's Gemini should be classified a wood coaster, which it isn't. The track type, not the supports, determines what kind of coaster it is.

Almost
06-12-2006, 07:46 AM
Ok if you are talking about the Golden Ticket Awards your wrong. Boulder if that's what you mean was #2. Dollywood's Thunderhead was #1 according to the 2005 Golden Ticket Awards.

He's referring to the Mitch Hawker polls, the most accurate poll out there.

El Toro easily Top 5 woodie, no doubt in my mind.

Jerry S
06-12-2006, 11:10 AM
I was thinking that Voyage would be better because it is longer and has many more hills, but after seeing El Toro just fly with such speed over the hills, I think El Toro wins.

Screamweaver
06-12-2006, 11:47 AM
Well you really need to wait till the dust settles and enough people have ridden both (I'll be riding Voyage this Friday, El Toro in August).

Right now all the SFGadv fans will of course hail El Toro as the second coming, but I've heard that it's got a terrific opening, slows down a bit in the middle, before finishing strong. Voyage has also been pegged as "the one", both from long time Holiday World fans as well as first time visitors, most people saying it was the ride of their life and some even saying it's a bit TOO intense.

Both sound wonderful enough that it's US riders who will really come out the winners, but it's just way too early to be crowning El Toro as anything yet. 70 percent of the enthusiast population rode Voyage over Memorial Day weekend. Hardly anyone's ridden El Toro yet. If El Toro manages to impress even SFGadv haters (the way S:ROS did at SFNE), then we're talking.

Jerry S
06-12-2006, 02:02 PM
^El Toro can't impress haters, because haters never want to say they're right. 70% of "us" went to Holiday World? No, I doubt it. Besides, there are too many people who blindly hate SF, and expecially GAdv to admit if Toro is better, and I know that some people will prefer Voyage, but nobody will ever admit to prefferring Toro, even though everybody said how much they like Balder over in Europe.

That's why I don't like the blind hate of Six Flags. It's not that bad, lately, they've been shaping up, especially with theming and all.

Screamweaver
06-12-2006, 02:27 PM
Well I'm not so sure that's correct, even though I do get what your saying. People's feelings for SF do seem to color their opinions of the rides. Good example: All the people who hailed TTD, then bashed Kingda Ka.

But you also have to remember, ALOT of people hated SFNE back in 2000, but still had to admit S:ROS was the best steel coaster they had ever ridden.

And in the end, though it's fun to sometimes compare rides because that's part of what makes us coaster nerds, who really cares which one enthusiasts embrace? It's more about your personal opinion and how the coaster impacts the park. And I bet both coasters make people seriously adjust their top 5's this year!

Jerry S
06-12-2006, 04:07 PM
^Already adjusted mine. Check my sig.

Martin
06-18-2006, 08:38 PM
Front Row POV's (both legal):
El Toro (http://livedigital.com/content/415813/u70678)
Voyage (http://media.psci.net/hw/pov512K_Stream.wmv)

CrymeLord
06-19-2006, 02:21 PM
Just rode both in a matter of a month.

Not to cop out, but they are really different coasters. El Toro uses that ejector air feeling while Voyage is a furious ride that never lets up. They each have their benefits.

For me it is no contest. Voyage is far superior if only because of its 90 degree turns, its speed, and its length. I pine for Voyage. El Toro is merely a coaster I must ride when I go to GAdv

Voyage is special, El Toro is unique. I need that out of control feeling that Voyage and the Beast give me. El Toro is metered and deliberate. Ejector air is something to behold, but if not for the ejector air, this ride would be average. I know because I rode El Toro on the first train of the day and it was slow and cumbersome. Later in the day it was fast and wicked. Truly awesome.

BTW. I like SF. I love GAdv. Just one rider's opinion.

SheikraTTD
06-19-2006, 02:31 PM
Are those 90* turns on El Toro....I couldnt tell on that video.....and SF doesnt tell us anything but the stupid records they broke.

Martin
06-19-2006, 02:38 PM
They are not 90 degree banked turns, but they seem pretty close to being 90 degrees.

Joseph
06-19-2006, 05:09 PM
For me it is no contest. Voyage is far superior if only because of its 90 degree turns, its speed, and its length. I pine for Voyage. El Toro is merely a coaster I must ride when I go to GAdv
Do you honestly think that the 90 degree turns really add to the ride. Especially after the first one, I thought they were mere gimmicks, and the 2nd one definately took away from the ride IMO.

Speed? - are you talking about how it carries its speed or what? Do some 'splainin please :)

SFGadvKing
06-19-2006, 08:21 PM
I just rode El Toro and I can not see how any rollercoaster could possibly be any better. There is no doubt that El Toro is my number one favorite coaster. Its simply incredible.

Jerry S
06-19-2006, 08:34 PM
Just rode both in a matter of a month.

Not to cop out, but they are really different coasters. El Toro uses that ejector air feeling while Voyage is a furious ride that never lets up. They each have their benefits.

For me it is no contest. Voyage is far superior if only because of its 90 degree turns, its speed, and its length. I pine for Voyage. El Toro is merely a coaster I must ride when I go to GAdv

Voyage is special, El Toro is unique. I need that out of control feeling that Voyage and the Beast give me. El Toro is metered and deliberate. Ejector air is something to behold, but if not for the ejector air, this ride would be average. I know because I rode El Toro on the first train of the day and it was slow and cumbersome. Later in the day it was fast and wicked. Truly awesome.

BTW. I like SF. I love GAdv. Just one rider's opinion.

How did you like the other coasters at the park? Was it your first time at SFGAdv?

Brian F
06-20-2006, 01:11 AM
Crymelord, thanks for posting your opinion, as well as explaining your reasons for it.

I just need to get up there and ride ET and KK. Voyage is beyond awesome, but I'm an affirmed Magnum lover, so the ejector air may do it for me. Even if I don't rate it above Voyage, I'm sure I'll like it. I hope they keep the maintenance up on it.

CrymeLord
06-20-2006, 09:22 AM
SF GAdv is my home park.

First of all understand that I love speed and acrobatics.

Medusa is my favorite ride in the park followed by Nitro and then El Toro. This isn't demeaning to El Toro as I hold both Nitro and Medusa in very high regard.

Superman Ultimate flight is excellent for a flying coaster. I know it is relatively slow, but it is enjoyable as opposed to Batwing at SFA which is much too fast and really makes me feel awful (and I have a fairly strong stomach).

GASM holds a dear place in my heart as it was the first coaster I was truly infatuated with growing up. It is much smoother now than in years past.

Batman: The Ride is wonderful even though it has been cloned everywhere (at least they copied a good one). But I will only ride it if the line is short. Inverteds are potentially my favorite coasters.

Chiller, even less so. I'll ride it, but I won't wait for it.

Skull Mountain bores me to tears.

Kinga Ka is a one trick pony, but it's a really awesome trick. I love to ride it, but won't cry if I can't and won't wait long.

Runaway Train and Rolling Thunder are barely worth my time. Because I rode Rolling Thunder for most of my youth, I thought I hated woodies. Now I know better.

Jerry S
06-20-2006, 01:13 PM
I don't like Nitro better than El Toro. I do like Medusa a lot, and it is my second favorite in the park. When did you ride Voyage though? You are the first person to say El Toro isn't the best coaster in GAdv.

CrymeLord
06-20-2006, 01:23 PM
That's fine everyone has their tastes, and in my opinion it is easy to heap El Toro on top because it is new.

The ejector air is neat, but I prefer traditional air time that Nitro offers to the ejector air that El Toro offers. And I preferr acrobatics to to traditional air time, so there you go.

I'm not saying that El Toro isn't great because it is. Just a matter of what you like.

I rode Voyage on Sunday May 28th. Three rides I will never forget.

My trip report is elsewhere on the site if you are interested.

Jerry S
06-20-2006, 01:40 PM
Well I also agree, aerobatic motions that B&M multilooping coasters have are really good, and I do like them a lot. But I don't know what you mean aobut traditional airtime. It's just how different companies make their coasters, Morgan has floater air, B&M has some floater and some ejector air, and Intamin has ejector air on many of their coasters. I don't know what you consider traditional, all of those are considered airtime, and ejector airtime has occurred before on many coasters before El Toro.

CrymeLord
06-20-2006, 03:01 PM
I have never felt ejector air like El Toro.

I was forcefully ejected from my seat. Without that snug lap bar, I'd be splattered all over the concourse. It's why they strap you in tighter than any wood coaster I've ever been on.

Nitro's air has you come out of your seat and kind of float over the hills. This is the traditional air I'm used to. And I like Nitro's air better than El Toro's because where Nitro is graceful, El Toro is a bucking bronco trying to throw you out (not that it's a bad thing). It just isn't my brand of optimum enjoyment.

I'm just comparing the type of air that El Toro gives you compared to what Nitro gives you. I'm sure you will agree they are much different experiences.

SFGadvKing
06-20-2006, 03:37 PM
I agree that Nitro's air is felt better than El Toro's, because of the trains. When your feet are firmly against the floor and your stapled in your seat with the next row a foot in front of you, even ejector air isnt felt as much as it could be. Since Nitro's seats are so open and your legs fly up even during the floater airtime, its felt much better. But even airtime aside, I think El Toro is a better all around ride. It seems like El Toro doesnt lose a drop of speed from the begining of the lifthill until the breaks. Nitro is all hills while El Toro mixes it up perfectly with the twister section. And add that El Toro is smoother than any (steel included) rollercoaster I have ever been on.

CrymeLord
06-20-2006, 04:29 PM
This isn't academic. It's just how you feel when you are riding and the amount of fun you are having. The sensations on El Toro are just what some people need. For others Nitro or Medusa, or <fill in name of different ride> pushes their button. And that's cool.

The thing is. If they let you "feel" ejector air on El Toro, you are mangled on the pavement. It has to be the way it is. Your feet have to be bolted to the floor and your ass firmly in your seat. For me El Toro is too short to be my favorite anything. I agree that Nitro is all hills, but I like the Gs in the helix, and I generally just like the way it feels better than El Toro. I want to glide around the track, and not feel the coaster try to throw me out. On Nitro, I sometimes scooch up so that the lap bar doesn't come all the way down, and just kind of float between the seat and the restraint over the hills (gets kind of scary sometimes). With El Toro, my only advice is to clench your abdominal muscles when they press down on the lap bar. If done correctly you might have a little breathing room without the danger of leaving the coaster.

And like I said earlier, Nitro IS all hills, and that is what I like about it, but because it is all hills, it is my second favorite in the park.

Agreed that El Toro is the smoothest ride ever. On the turn onto the lift hill, I'd swear that it had tires it is so smooth. Patriot is also silky smooth. Gun to my head, El Toro is smoother as a train on tracks, Patriot seems to have a smoother design as there are no jerking sections of track like El Toro has on the back part (it's still smooth, but the track is designed to throw you about). Hard to describe.

coasterdude28
06-20-2006, 05:03 PM
There are tires on the turn before the lift.

BGWfanatic
06-20-2006, 05:37 PM
^ I believe he meant it felt like you were riding on tires, instead of coaster train wheels, when you were taking that turn. Thats how smooth it is. Not that there is tires that propel you forward so the car can make the turn without getting stuck.

CrymeLord
06-21-2006, 09:18 AM
Yeah, that's what I meant. That beginning is eerily smooth as if you were riding on air-filled tires instead of the standard coaster wheels. It is a wondrous feeling. And in some strangely wierd way, one of my favorite parts of a great ride.

Martin
06-21-2006, 01:10 PM
I don't know how to match up El Toro and Voyage. They seem to be two completely different rides.

CrymeLord
06-21-2006, 01:41 PM
They are completely different animals. Each gives you different sensations.

It comes down to what appeals to you.

Leo C
06-21-2006, 03:45 PM
I agree with CrymeLord that these two coasters are just different animals, different niches they cover. What I find more certain though is the El Toro t-shirts are much better. As ferocious and perhaps ugly as they could be in different colors at least they can't confuse the GP for being a possible summer Bible camp theme. hehe :)

Martin
08-26-2006, 10:24 PM
On YouTube there is a video of El Toro flying through its whole course without slowing down. Just search for the exact words "El Toro point-of-view".

Nitro1118
08-27-2006, 02:45 PM
I just came back from my huge midwest trip last week, and just visited GAV again 2 days ago. IMO El Toro is the SLIGHTLY better ride. Voyage is absolutely amazing, but due to its sheer size and intensity that NEVER lets up and gets its strongest at very end, it doesn't leave you with the wow feeling that you get from Toro. On my 2nd ride in the 2nd row the ride was also quite rough, which made it unbearable, while El Toro is always very smooth.

With that said, my night ride on Voyage towards the back of the train, last ride of the night on 8/13, was possibly the best ride I have ever had on a coaster. It was smooth, serving up airtime that bordered on ejector, amazing lats, and it felt even faster than usual.Not to mention it was almost totally dark, which meant the tunnels (triple down most specifically) were totally dark which made them even more awesome.

Martin
08-27-2006, 05:52 PM
^ Wow, El Toro gets the edge from someone who has ridden both for once!

coastrfreak2000
08-27-2006, 06:23 PM
It looks as though The Voyage takes the cake, it did better than El Toro in the GTA's.But, alas,the voters were probably biased or had different preferences.

coasterdude28
08-27-2006, 08:58 PM
GTA's? I don't think they have been announced yet. Or have they?

coastrfreak2000
08-27-2006, 09:02 PM
Yes they have. http://amusementtoday.com/

I love DW
08-27-2006, 09:07 PM
I haven't rode El Toro so I didn't vote because to choose which is better you need to ride both. But I do have to say that Voyage is a good coaster. A little to rough, but still a good coaster.

Leo C
08-28-2006, 06:08 PM
If Voyage won the Golden Ticket I could only imagine the frenzy in this thread. The Toro-Voyage competition lives on.

Martin
08-28-2006, 06:23 PM
The back seat on Toro this afternoon was ridiculous! It was flying throughout the layout, and it was hard to keep my hands up in the twister. The train even took the second s-curve fast. This ride really warms up in the afternoon, and you really feel it in the back.

metal432
08-28-2006, 06:36 PM
I've only ridden toro so I'm not going to vote either, but I have to say make sure to sit somewhere in the front car when you ride it because you get ejector air at the end and MASSIVE ejector air over the classic first couple hills, except the first drop isn't as great in the front, but overall the front is a better ride, so sit here before you judge the two.

medieval
08-28-2006, 07:13 PM
Voyage is better, hands down. You dont get that sustained ejector air like you do on Toro, but the crazy pops of air you always get, along with tunnels, the maintained speed, and 90 degree turns wins it. Its even better at night.

Martin
08-28-2006, 07:15 PM
^ Do you think in the long run Toro will be better because it will stay smooth, while the Voyage will most likely get rougher?

bk2004
08-28-2006, 07:36 PM
Looks like neither of them won! Thunderhead did...again! The 2006 Golden Ticket Award for Best Wooden Roller Coaster. :D

Martin
08-28-2006, 10:00 PM
The wooden list in the GTA's was ridiculous. Balder was ranked #29 or something...

I love DW
08-28-2006, 10:12 PM
^ Do you think in the long run Toro will be better because it will stay smooth, while the Voyage will most likely get rougher?

I have not rode El Toro but as for the Voyage I think your right I think that it will only get more rough. It's already pretty rough for a new wooden coaster but in about ten years that thing may be too rough to ride almost. Who knows though it may not change but then again it may change drastically.

ravenrider
08-29-2006, 10:03 AM
well with the maintance crew at Hw is IMO one of the best they rebuilt the front lake section and the double up on lengend last year. So I think we can look at the best care possible, just look at the other wooden coaster at SFGrAd, Rolling Blunder, they really need to work on it.

Martin
08-29-2006, 11:16 AM
^ Yes, but El Toro is a totally different coaster in terms of maintenance. The pre-fabricated woodies don't need nearly as much maintenance as the classic ones do. People say Colossos at Heide Park is still in fantastic condition 5 or 6 seasons after its opening.

Thunderhawk
08-29-2006, 09:06 PM
Plus, El Toro may be the smoothest coaster I've ever been on...and I'm including Nitro, Talon, etc. in that statement. I think Six Flags' new management will ensure their new toys are properly maintained.

Joseph
08-29-2006, 11:36 PM
The wooden list in the GTA's was ridiculous. Balder was ranked #29 or something...
kinda hard to ride Balder when you never leave the Midwest...

I rode El Toro again this past weekend, it still killed, and is probably my outright #1 now. The ops sucked a little more this time around, but the park was pretty dead Saturday morning so I got my two rides in and got out by 11:30... with a sidetrip to Nitro mixed in :)

To say that El Toro will go to hell based on Rolling Thunder's past is a bit harsh to me.

medieval
08-30-2006, 12:58 PM
How can this ride go to hell with Rolling Thunders past? If you mean rough, I dobut it will, since it doesnt have steel to steel like most woodies.

Dollywood Pete
08-30-2006, 04:09 PM
Hey guys, I was at the GTA's and rode The Voyage several times. It is an incredible ride. I would call it "out of control" speeds for the running stock on the ride. Still, it is an incredible ride. I rode with some folks who have watched and felt it get rougher and rougher all year but I can not attest to that myself. If it had Flier trains on it it would be smoother but it is still incredible and an acheivement for The GG. The first third is an incredible out and back feel, you take a rough helix into the second third which has the best trick on the ride (a triple down in a tunnel) and then enter the last third which was uncomfortable for for me. It is, however, it is not a coaster you can ride over and over like you can the Raven at HW.

El Toro is simply amazing. It takes your breath away but it may be too extreme for the average rider. I am not sure it is a ride you can ride over and over either because of the intensity.

The airtime on both is great.

I know I am biased but my top Woods are still Thunderhead as a twister and then my favorite is The Phoenix for an out and back style. I like classic rides with wood support and wood track.

MAVERICK 2007
08-30-2006, 04:22 PM
Voyage barely beats out El Toro.

Martin
08-30-2006, 04:56 PM
I got another two backseat rides on El Toro this afternoon. Incredible as always.

Jerry S
08-30-2006, 07:36 PM
I like classic rides with wood support and wood track.

Toro has wooden supports and wooden track. In fact, the rails have twice as much wood as Phoenix, but the same amount of steel. El Toro is only unconventional in that it has a cable lift. And it's awesome.

Brian F
08-31-2006, 12:41 AM
I like classic rides with wood support and wood track.

I couldn't agree with you more- I would love Voyage even more if it had wooden supports instead of the steel. But the ride is still what it is: awesome.

Jerry S
08-31-2006, 12:26 PM
Some people are saying Voyage barely beats El Toro, others say Toro kills Voyage. I wonder how it can be so drastic. There really aren't any other answers.

Johnny Upsidedown
08-31-2006, 03:05 PM
Well finally got to ride El toro and have ridden Voyage.
Guess for me Voyage is the better ride. However they are differnt types of ride experiences so it really is hard to pick one over the other.

I was impressed with ET smoothness but felt the ride was just to short its over before you even get a chance to look around. Its a great ride on its own. Very powerful ride and alot of out of the seat forced airtime. The only drawback that I felt on ET is that if you really want speed and smooth go ride MF. It kinda takes away from a woodie coaster. But really it is an impressive ride in its self I was very impressed with the ride, I got 10 rides on it as I had an exit pass to walk up the exit and get on rides all day long.

Reasons I chose Voyage over ET.. I liked Voyages floating air and the drops seem bigger and more of them. Voyage has great hills and then lots of twisty turns then some more great hills then the world just goes crazy. Plus the overall length is a big factor.

Its really hard to say which is the better ride because they are totally different rides and both are equally impressive to see and ride.
J>.

Martin
09-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Is it just me or does the Voyage seem quite rough from this video? Maybe it is just the cameraman or I have gotten used to the smoothness of El Toro...

EDIT: Illegal POV link removed. Just realized.

CaverD
09-02-2006, 08:37 PM
I think the guy holding the video camera is just not able to hold the camera steady enough. The Voyage is out of control but far from rough in my opinion. My two sons (ages 15 & 9) and I rode The Voyage 9 times one day in July and had a great time. None of us felt the coaster is rough at all. We were all able to ride with our arms up the entire ride. The videos on the Holiday World web site provide a much better video representation of the entire ride.

I love DW
09-04-2006, 12:57 PM
They guy is not the best at shooting a video on the ride. But part of it is the Voyage is still pretty rough for a new wooden coaster. And isn't it against the rules to take a video camera on Voyage?

Martin
09-04-2006, 11:55 PM
Unless he got park permission, which I doubt he did, so I removed the link.