View Full Version : Knoebels to receive Flying Turns!!!!

02-10-2006, 04:57 PM
It is official! http://www.knoebels.com/update.htm I can't wait! This is gonna be the first one since the 1930's. Knoebel's is getting another notch in their post for the best wooden coasters.

02-10-2006, 07:16 PM
I can't believe it! They are really doing it! I heard rumor of it, but thought it would be a couple of years at least. That is incredible. I wish we could see plans or something. The site doesn't give much away. So I guess since they have broken ground it will be open for the 06 season? They are starting aweful late. I love Knoebel's!

02-10-2006, 10:37 PM
If you go to www.rcdb.com and do a search for "flying turns" you can find several examples of past flying turns coasters, and I think one or 2 have photos. From what I understand, Knoebels is trying to build one that is true to the old design.

Leo C
02-10-2006, 11:18 PM
I saw some pictures. It still looks pretty vague.

02-10-2006, 11:24 PM
Well, I know what the old flying turns are like. I want to see what Knoebel's is going to look like. It will obviously have to be a bit different because I think the safety standards were a bit different back then. ;) I want to see what they have done to bring this into the modern era. The old ones looked wicked. Does anyone know who designed it for them? What company will be giving them the rolling stock, or will it be inhouse work? We dont' have very much information yet, but I'm realy looking forward to it.

P.S. rcdb has like two pictures, and they show almost nothing. Google it, or look into some books about coaster history. I have some with terrific photos of some old Flying Turns.

02-11-2006, 01:06 AM
From what I have read so far.... it is going to be an in-house construction project. I imagine they will contract out stuff like design and car assembly. who knows? I hope they can get it up for this summer, I would like to go there and try it out........

02-11-2006, 01:18 AM
I always wanted parks to bring back some of the lost coasters!
NEXT, somone needs to bring back the virginia reel!

02-11-2006, 02:13 AM
Do a google image search for Flying Turns....plenty-o-pics!

02-11-2006, 04:18 AM
Here is a bit of info. Apparently they are designing it after the Flying Turns at Riverview Park. http://www.riverviewparkchicago.com/generic24.html
The book The American Roller Coaster says this one was the smallest one ever built. Too bad they are not building it like the Bobsled from Lake Placid in New Jersey. THAT one looked crazy!

02-11-2006, 09:27 AM
Yeah it would have to be sort of small for the area they are supposedly putting it in. But that one still looks really fun.

Leo C
02-11-2006, 09:36 AM
A wooden bobsled then. Let's get some rollerskates on too.

02-11-2006, 04:51 PM
We've only known this since PPP back in October.

02-11-2006, 05:16 PM
...and everyone on this site goes to PPP. I have yet to go to a PPP because of work or other commitments.

Seriously, you need to get off your high horse and quit being an ass and ruining a good discussion. If you can't handle that, there is a simple solution... don't post.

02-12-2006, 12:13 AM
^^Amen brother!! :) Roller skating would be pimp on this bad boy. I think it will be cool not having the little check points throughout the ride like the Intamin rides where you straighten out and hit the little speed adjusting tires. That always ruin the ride's pace for me.

02-13-2006, 04:56 PM
Ok, I'll get off my high horse and give it to you so you can have two. Well anyway, I didn't go to PPP, but it was common knowledge on the internet that this was happening.

02-13-2006, 07:45 PM
Well some people knew it was happening. I was aware it was in the works, but not everyone knew which one it was being modeled after. You can't say we should have known when, well, we didn't. I bet you can find MILLIONS of people who use the internet everyday and still don't know this is happening. ;) Thanks for getting off your horse and climbing back on to it in the same post though. That must have been a real work out! :)

02-13-2006, 08:17 PM
How can I get back on to the horse, when I gave it away?

Anyway, It really hasn't said anything about the layout.

02-13-2006, 08:29 PM
Well Knoebels said they wanted to put one in during PPP but they said it wasn't a done deal. They were waiting to see if the cars could be built up to modern standards.

BTW, nice SG, I'm assuming it yours, Epiphone or Gibson?

02-13-2006, 09:11 PM
I think this is so weird. a flying turns coaster!?!! I wonder if they will be a bitdifferent fromt he others, becasue dont you think it would be hard to maintain it if it runs on the wood? (or does it run on metal plates lilke a woodie? look slike just wood to me) This is so awsome! It makes me want more old coasters!

02-13-2006, 10:34 PM
this has been on the website for a while now.
old news BUT GOOD NEWS and I can't wait
Knoebels rocks

02-14-2006, 12:42 AM
^well the thread has been here a few days too so :-P
I don't see why people are pointing out how long we are supposed to have known. I didn't see any other threads started, so I guess if we don't start one within a day or two of the news coming out, then we should not start one at all? Because then we are razzed about not hearing before hand. This is apparently news to several people that this project started or even existed, so why point out how long you may have known about it? You are poo pooing our parade. Be gone ye wretched nay saying scoundrels!

P.S. YAY for flying turns!

02-14-2006, 01:37 AM
Honestly, with the exception of a mention of the new coaster on RCDB's Knoebels' page, I hadn't heard anything about the new coaster anywhere else. Some people just like to cause a stir.

I agree, Zingoman. YAY for flying turns! Nice to see something unique being built!

02-14-2006, 01:57 AM
I heard this 4 months ago
I'm not trying to stir anything just making you aware I'm surprised the thread didn't keep going.
the pictures you see on Knoebels website are from Jan 20th more then 3 weeks ago.
I can't wait it's been more then 7 years since they had a new coaster
I'm only 2 hours away and will be there to ride it can't wait it's been more then 70 years since the original was running.


02-14-2006, 04:02 PM
Has it been 7 years since Twister?? No way! I am getting old way too fast!! I was in H.S. when that ride opened. That is amazing. Is the ride going in place of Wirlwind? Where exactly is it being built?

02-14-2006, 04:50 PM
This is going to be a really cool project to watch. I'm glad they are restoring a classic coaster instead of just building a new one. This shows the parks real goals...

02-15-2006, 12:32 AM
From what I read, it is being installed where Whirlwind was.

02-15-2006, 04:49 PM
No new news on the ride. We won't know till it is up.

Yes it is mine it is a Gibson SG Standard.

02-28-2006, 07:52 AM
I was just reading about this in ACE News and it really sound exciting.

I still haven't been to Knoebels yet and want to soon.

I just wonder if they will have the laminate wood like the old ones or how it will work.

02-28-2006, 04:12 PM
I don't know if any of you guys seen this...


02-28-2006, 04:54 PM
Nice website. Thanks for the link.

Leo C
02-28-2006, 05:28 PM
An ACEr I knew gave me his newsletter and it had the same effect.

I was just reading about this in ACE News and it really sound exciting.

It felt even more exciting sharing the news with a lady I talk about Knoebel's with. The excitement feels real and is spreading.

03-01-2006, 05:19 PM
I don't know if any of you guys seen this...


That's very cool, webcams and everything. Not much happening at the moment, but still informative. Steve Okamoto is involved doing the train design! I'm loco for Okamoto. It also looks like the crazy Looper flat ride is still there, which is great. I was afraid the Flying Turns would bump it out.

03-02-2006, 09:01 AM
^If you look at Knoebel's ride list, you will notice that at least according to TN, the park has only two defunct rides in it's entire history, and both are coasters. I don't know if that is true, but it is quite astonishing. They have a HUGE flat collection, and I think something as vintage and unique as the Looper is quite safe at this park.

03-03-2006, 08:52 AM
Knoebles = One of the best older style parks on earth.
Flying Turns = One of the most historical Ride types on earth.

Knoebles + Flying Turns = Nostalgiac Heaven. This is gonna be good.

04-04-2006, 05:13 PM
New pictures are up.


04-04-2006, 05:18 PM
It looks really good. I can't wait to see this take shape and come together.

Ryan F
04-04-2006, 06:08 PM
I cant wait to see how they re-design the cars and trains to todays safety standards

Matt M
04-04-2006, 06:40 PM
Looks bumpy.

04-04-2006, 07:22 PM
Wow, this thing really is in house. Looks like a bunch of random people coming to help build a project type thing, not a coaster!

04-04-2006, 07:28 PM
this looks so awsome, I really want to ride one of these!

Johnny Upsidedown
04-04-2006, 07:48 PM
Wow I wish I could do some photos of the construction. The curves in the wood sections make for some interesting views.
This will be an interesting project to watch get built because of its uniqueness.

04-04-2006, 11:02 PM
Yeah those pictures really do look cool. I wonder how long it will take to put this beauty together?

04-05-2006, 01:59 AM
The idea seems awsome.
Has anyone else noticed the fact that it seems to not have much heigth to it? Are just starting with the low parts of the ride first or this this thing gonna be really low to the ground?

Ryan F
04-05-2006, 09:27 AM
The ride is going to be 50' tall.
They're probably building sections on the ground then lifting them into place

04-05-2006, 03:05 PM
It says on the ride's progress and history reports that they are building low first because they need to get their strategy, and technique down before they try experimental building procedures 50 feet up.

04-05-2006, 03:44 PM
I cant wait to ride this later this year :D! Or maybe next year if its not done for 06.

04-21-2006, 03:01 PM
Updates on the site. There is now a logo and a layout picture. http://www.knoebels.com/update.htm

04-21-2006, 04:38 PM
The layout looks actually a bit better than I expected from looking at the ride it is based from. How cool is that?! I like the logo a lot too. It's very vintage looking.

04-21-2006, 05:19 PM
Very cool logo, I'm psyched! :)

05-02-2006, 09:08 AM
anyone else having trouble viewing the time lapse video's on http://flyingturnsproject.com ? Oh well, either way, consrtruction is going well, you can actually see the 2nd to last turn completed (the bottom right side of the ride). It looks like it's probably going to upen up befored this year is over.

05-02-2006, 09:12 AM
It will be open this year.
It's not a big ride.
FIRST DROP magazine had a good article on it

05-02-2006, 03:46 PM
The video plays, but is just a black screen.

05-05-2006, 09:33 AM
sux. they gotta get someone to fix that...

Leo C
05-29-2006, 12:17 AM
I wonder how the ride will be winterized. I wish the park luck in its completion and maintenance of this coaster to come. If I keep rolling at my pace to 200 for this year this may be a candidate for #200. This or Leap the Dips.

Johnny Upsidedown
06-07-2006, 07:46 PM
Anybody been by the park lately. I was wondering how construction was going. I see one of the webcams shows they still have a long way to go if that is current. I wish the park would add a few new photos of construction.. I will be stopping by the park in a couple weeks to take a look and catch a few rides on Twister.

06-08-2006, 06:48 PM
I can't wait til' this is done! hey anyone know why on there webcam page it only shows one webcam?? the other one is black! and also I think they need to update there site with new pictures and lets us know how the progress is doing! anyone got more info let me know can't wait til' its done.

Jerry S
06-14-2006, 09:37 AM
So it's just a wooden bobsled coaster? Why is it better than a steel one by Mack or Intamin?

06-14-2006, 11:46 AM
Considering that noone on these boards ever rode one that is wooden, it's a safe bet to say that noone knows how it will ride.

It looks like it would be much smoother, but you can't tell from pictures and concept art.

06-14-2006, 01:42 PM
So it's just a wooden bobsled coaster? Why is it better than a steel one by Mack or Intamin?

It's taken from blueprints of old-school style Flying Turns ride. They were regarded as scary because they always felt like they were going to fly off the track. I never get that feeling on any steel one.

Jerry S
06-14-2006, 02:10 PM
^^Well, I've been on Avalanche at PKD, and I didn't find that rough.

^I guess I can imagine that with the wood it could go much faster. The steel ones have tiny little rails that cause friction, and the wood could be smoother I guess.

Johnny Upsidedown
06-14-2006, 06:20 PM
Anybody want a peak at the recent construction.
The photos on this page are from the European Coaster Clubs trip to Knoebels, seems they got a construction tour. The link above is the ECC trip page it has lots of photos of members but look for the photos of the track work. The photos are mixed in a couple at the top and more toward the bottom of the page.

I will be at Knoebels next week for some photos of the ride and I am going to try and get up close but just have to see if the park will allow me access.

Johnny Upsidedown
08-29-2006, 09:44 PM
Well sorry to double post.
I was out at Knoebels today 8-29-06. My orginal trip was supposed to be in June. Anyway finally made the trip up for some construction photos unfortunatly rain was the order of the day. As for the ride I was told that half of the structure is done and about 1/6th of track work is complete. I was also told that there is one more layer of wood that goes on the track. Anyway I have 24 photos from today up on my site www.johnnyupsidedown.com. Or quick link directly to the photos here http://www.johnnyupsidedown.com/new2007ft.html

Ryan F
08-29-2006, 09:52 PM
I dont know if this has been brought up before....but are there any breaks on this ride? How is it going to slow down to come into station?

08-29-2006, 09:54 PM
Nice update Johnny. This looks to be a cool coaster. I cant wait to go their next year.

Leo C
08-31-2006, 12:17 PM
Next year will be my Pennsylvania year I can feel it. I probably will not get a SF pass next year cause I basically do it every other year. In those off years I usually go to Dorney, no excuse not to go to Hershey for the 100th, now Knoebels. Hopefully I can get to Lakemont and Delgrosso's.

08-31-2006, 12:34 PM
Great update Johnny. This coaster is coming along nicely. I will definately be driving out there next year to try this out.

Johnny Upsidedown
08-31-2006, 02:57 PM
Thanks guys compliments allways appreciated.. For me I think the ride looks awesome. It is so uniquely different then anything I have seen. I cant wait to see the trains fly down the track next year. It should be a fun ride.

NC Coasterman
12-25-2006, 09:47 PM
I've recently come across this site


has updated construction information and photos.

Johnny Upsidedown
02-07-2007, 06:04 PM
Great site for those that have an interest in the Flying Turns and how its made check out the latest sets of photos from the link above.
Steve has been working on the ride on the weekends with the crew. Lots of information he posts over on Rec.roller-coaster News group,

Great photos its pretty amazing to see how its all done.

Leo C
02-07-2007, 06:12 PM
The message sounds even exciting in the rec.rollercoaster. The woodwork looks amazing. I wouldn't think I'd call a rollercoaster beautiful. In a wood shop class this would be an amazing site to site visit/intern.

02-07-2007, 09:00 PM
^How could you not ever have seen a roller coaster that you though was beautiful? That blows my mind! lol. There are a lot of coasters out there that I think are beautiful. Mean Streak, Mantis, Texas Giant, Riddler's Revenge, Zingo ;), Thunder Dolphin, Olympia Looping, the list goes on. I don't knwo if I'd call the Flying Turns beautiful from the midway, but looking inside that trough is a golden monument of wooden splendor! lol I can't wait until I can get over there and give this beast a go. This has to be the greatest revival of a lost attraction we will ever have the pleasure of seeing. All the workmanship going into this rather moderate sized coaster really shows you how impressive the larger Turns must have been back in the good ole days. I wonder how long it took to build them back then.

Jim S.
02-07-2007, 10:25 PM
I dont know if this has been brought up before....but are there any breaks on this ride? How is it going to slow down to come into station?

Funnel it from the trough into a side-friction coaster track with brakes, after angling the trough upward to slow the train enough to not bash the funnel too hard.

02-08-2007, 12:53 PM
Assuming WildeFyre meant brakes and not breaks, it said on one of those websites that the coaster will run downlhill all the way until the last turn into the brakerun. The coaster will have brakes, but I'm very curious to know what kind. Will they be modern clamp style air brakes with fins under the trains, or skid brakes like Twister. I really want to know how much speed the trains will have left at the end and how hard they will have to brake them. We don't really see coasters that are all downhill to the end. It seems like it will be at it's top speed towards the end.

02-08-2007, 08:18 PM
There are a few coasters that are pretty much downhill to the end.... namely the bobsleds like Disaster transport. While DT has a couple controlled small uphill sections that lead into block brakes, it is for the most part all downhill. Somehow the cars get funnelled into a brake run (the type of which I do not know). Perhaps whatever is used on DT can be adapted for Flying Turns?

Jim S.
02-08-2007, 08:18 PM
From what I've read, the layout is going to be station -> lift -> helix/tunnel -> lift -> main section -> brakes -> lift -> station. Part of the reason for the extra lift at the end is to help keep the trains spaced out -- they want to run 3 trains since each train holds so few people, and each section of the ride is going to be fairly short. I think I read that it's going to use skid brakes. Since the top speed is going to be around 25 mph and they're going to use gravity to slow the trains enough to guide them into the brake run, I doubt braking will be a problem.

02-09-2007, 12:35 AM
^^Bratman, I would have to disagree about Disaster Transport being mostly downhill. It actually spends more time going uphill than down hill. Off the lift the ride dives down to the right then spirals uphill to the left into the first block section, then it drops to the left and into an uphill clock-wise helix up into another block brake, Then drops to the left clear to the ground, and zig zags uphill all the way back up to the final brakes. DT also uses the typical brakes with fins, and tire drives.

^I had my suspicions that Flying Turns had two lift hills but was never sure. To hear that it could possibly have three is really wild! It would make sense in the layout, although I think perhaps the lift before the tunneled helix will not be true, but rather the lift into the station will be the second one. You could be right though. I really don't know any better. I just know I cannot wait to see this thing in action!

Johnny Upsidedown
02-16-2007, 03:41 PM
Here is the latest update on the Flying turns from RRC,
Quote from CoastinSteve.
Well after the ACE visitors the previous weekend it was back to
buisness as usual @ Knoebels this past weekend.
Dispite the cold and occasional snow squals the efforts of the
construction crew are now focused on the helix
(altho work is continuing on building the trough of turn #10 of the
main section too )
60 yards of concrete footings had been poured the previous week and
another 40 yards worth were to be poured this week.
Taking down a part of the Flyers ride fence gave us access to that
flat area to begin building the bents that will form the helix.
Drilling and bolting the 4 X 6's and 4 X 8's the pieces of the next
section of the ride are beginning to come together and should be
beginning to get erected during this week

I added a couple pics to my Flying T's page including some shots of
the Phoenix and Twister, sleeping under a blanket of snow

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve

Below are a couple new photos.

02-16-2007, 09:36 PM
Thanks for sharing your photos! The official FT page never updates anymore. It's good to see the progress being documented on your site, I just wish the photos were bigger. Percentage wise, roughly how far along is the project's construction?

Johnny Upsidedown
02-16-2007, 10:18 PM
I agree I wish Coastin Steve would put up larger photos but I think that is the agreement that he has with his boss and Dick Knoebels. Steve is employeed on the weekends with the crew doing the work on Flying Turns so he is really only allowed to say so much. I will ask Steve on RRC how far along they are. I havnt been following the construction to much I just figure some may have an interest in the updates since Steve doesnt post here.
Probably more soon. Its possible Steve will be working on the Starliner also, I dont know for sure, but will find out soon enough.

Anyway I will continue to bring the info Steve posts as some of it is more detailed. As some weeks he has explained how parts are made and other stuff. Anyway I love the building process of the rides so this ride is very interesting how its made.

02-16-2007, 10:59 PM
Saw those pictures...damn that looks awesome. I can't wait to ride it when I swing by after the Preservation Conference this August.

Michael C
02-16-2007, 11:16 PM
That coaster really looks agreat. Even if the ride isn't fantastic it is one of the most Visually appealing coasters i have seen.

Johnny Upsidedown
02-21-2007, 02:20 PM
Sorry no photo update this week but here is the latest info from Coastin Steve on RRC.

I didn't get the chance to get up to Knoebels this past weekend to
work on the Flying Turns
ICE on many of the central Pennsylvania roads closed many of the ways
for me to get there, so I called in and told them I wasn't going to be
there and why.
Talking to Lenny Adams (Leonard Adams son), he gave me the
progress report over the phone.
The bents of the starting helix turn have started to be erected.
These consisted of the ones that contain a single track ledger that are
the farthest from "the road".
The double ledgered bents should start going up this week, but not
too many of them can get erected before the steel collum in the center
of this turn must be set (otherwise too much "stuff" will be in the
So, sorry, no pictures this week. I should have some new ones
after next weekend

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve

ps the most common question I'm asked about this ride is "when?"
The answer is when it's done
With this ride being the prototype that it is, progress is so
varied that making a prediction as to when it will be done is
So keep looking here for my reports and as the project gets closer
to being done, we'll all know it.

03-07-2007, 03:39 PM
Any recent updates? Has the park given a ballpark estimate as to when FT will open? Do you think it will be open by mid-late June?

This coaster really looks fun.

Jerry S
03-07-2007, 03:58 PM
Probably a lot of testing needs to be done with different weight distributions and how they'll affect the ride.

Johnny Upsidedown
03-07-2007, 03:59 PM
I am expecting an update later today. I got an email from Coastin Steve that he should have an update later tonight. I will post his comments from RRC when he posts. There should be new photos also. I will ask Steve when he thinks it might open, but the general answer has always been it will open when its done but I will try and find an answer if its available.
More later onecs the new info is posted.

Jim S.
03-07-2007, 07:46 PM
I'm eagerly waiting for a Steve update, as there hasn't been one for a few weeks. You can't tell anything from the webcams because they're at the wrong end of the ride.

03-07-2007, 08:20 PM
I was in the area late Sunday afternoon and did a quick drive by. Here are a few photos I snapped.

pic1 (http://home.comcast.net/~genefitz/Kno2.jpg)

pic2 (http://home.comcast.net/~genefitz/Kno3.jpg)

I didn't have time to get out and look around so I just took the photos from the car. I didn't see any work going on, but as the photo shows work has started on the helix.

03-07-2007, 10:08 PM
Hopefully this will be done by early August. My nieces and I will swing through on our way home from ACE's Preservation Con.

Johnny Upsidedown
03-18-2007, 12:01 PM
Ask and you shall receive.
Well many have asked about the photo size on Coastin Steves photos.
Well Steve replyed this week with a nice present. Look in page 9 to 11 for the latest photos of FT>
STEVES reply from RRC
Hi All
I have been truely blessed to be able to work on Knoebels Flying
Turns ride and take pictures as work continues. The goal, to share
these pics with all of you, so far has been done by my little Flying
Turns Fotos page.
Many of you have expressed a little frustration at not being able to
magnify or otherwise manipulate the photos once they're "locked" in my
WebTV based page.
So now, with the help of our friend "Cyclonic" <Nathan Brown> I
present ALL of my Flying Turns photos TO DATE at his Smugmug photos page
(currently over 150 photos !! 17 pages I think)
I really have no intention of adding comments to the photos there,
but if there's any photo there you have a question about, just send me
an e-mail <or post it to the RRC> and I'll be happy to address it.
I will continue to add to my Flying Turns Fotos page week to week
and add to the Smugmug gallery every once in a while, as
the my pile of digital photos builds up.

So once again, thanks to Dick, Buddy, Len and John for allowing me
to help build this ride and thanks to Nathan for helping me get these
photos up on the web in a way that many of you can enjoy more.
Here's the link 8-)

Also note that this link will be posted on my little Flying Turns
page as well <not yet, but I will be putting it there>

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve

Johnny Upsidedown
04-18-2007, 04:00 PM
Big update, photos should be coming tomorrow. You can read other comments on this here http://groups.google.com/group/rec.roller-coaster/browse_thread/thread/16b26be1ffe3d4bd/0989bf1d9b11d1dd?hl=en#0989bf1d9b11d1dd
From Coastin Steve and another post was made by John Fetterman who is the man that has recreated the Flying turns and has built and rebuilt others. Some may know of him.
From Coastin Steve on the progess
The pace at Knoebels has definately stepped up over the last few
I few new people hired, longer work hours w/ daylight savings
happening and the rest of the park showing signs of life to get ready
for opening in a few weeks.
The 90 degree trough turn by the North Pole and Christmas shop, is
beginning to take shape. As soon as the trough of this turn ends the
train will engage the third lift hill to get the train back up to
loading barn height.
While no bents have been placed for this lift hill yet, I would
suspect that those would be going up next week.

On the other end of the ride the starting helix has all of it's bents
in place, as well as the hand laminated, twisted beams that will support
the trough in this section.
As we build what John Fetterman has designed in this helix, we know
that John has a great sense of what "we" like, as back seat ride thru
this section of track will be quite "enjoyable" <g>
Next for the helix are the steel support rings that form the
trough. Setting these should be starting this week, and these will be
some of the steepest angled rings set so far. 8-)

The number of bents needed to be built and set to complete the circle
is getting down to the end. <G> Then there's trough to be built in
the helix and turns beyond the brake run, side friction track to do on
3 lift hills and the brake run, and a loading barn to build
.... and you want it by when ??

From John Fetterman, about why the ride is taking so long to build.

Have we bitten off more than we can chew? Not if we keep nibbling
away. Fortunatly we have not built anything which has had to be torn
down and rebuilt, so progress continues, whether it is at a faster
pace or slow as molasses.
One factor we considered before embarking on this project was the
cost of money these days. We wondered whether we would be able to
carry the debt load of unproductive money for an extended period if
the project extended for longer than normal. Because of relatively
low interest rates - "cheap" money - that burden is easier to bear
than it might have been, say back in 1980 during the Carter malaise
years of high inflation and high interest rates.
Also, we have ourselves in a highly attractive position, remember,
with our free admission and free parking policy - people can come to
see the construction and do not have to pay an exhorbitant price just
to watch. So an incomplete ride is less a slap in the face of a
"cheated" consumer who pays our list price to get in but gets no
benefit from just observing the progress, than it would be if he had
to pay full admission just to watch clever carpenters bend wood.
Talk of completion for PPP 2006 was not B.S., but it would have
required much more intensity of construction practises than we have
had to live with. Ironically, our approach leads to an overall lower
finished cost, by building slowly. A project built rapidly is rife
with mistakes, backtracking, finger-pointing, high-cost instant-
delivery contracts, next day air deliveries of every and all
components, and so on. The Knoebel family have been remarkably
patient and supportive of this deliberate process, even as the
progress had been "slow".
In the end, we are building a unique ride, the type of which hasn't
been built for decades - and frankly, because of increased safety and
longevity concerns, this type of ride has really never been built
before. How long does it take to build such a ride, especially if
your prime concern is operation and maintenance of an existing
amusement park? We all would love to have the monkey off our back, to
get the ride open, but we started the project in full knowledge that
we had considerable leeway in the length of time available to complete
the job properly. It will get open at some point, and we appreciate
the understanding shown by so many who have been inconvenienced by our
slow progress.

Ryan F
04-18-2007, 04:09 PM
I'm going to be very disappointed if I cant ride it when I go in June.

04-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Thanks for the update. I understand that they have not set a projected opening, or completion of construction date yet. It would be nice however if they could give a very rough estimate as to when they may be done. Name a month or something.

Anyway, I know the crew is working hard on this one of a kind ride. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to ride!

Johnny Upsidedown
04-18-2007, 04:34 PM
Once the photos come up we should get an idea of how much more is to be done..
One thing to consider, work on the Turns may loose a guy or two, as they are the same guys doing the Starliner rebuild. Opening, Steve wont even venture to guess as to when,
The answer I always get is, it will be done when its done.
From the sound of it I am guessing many many more months. Opening is coming soon and there is a tour with one of the clubs so maybe some new info plus alot of photos will give us some idea,.
The new photos will be here I guess tomorrow or so, check it over the next day or 2

04-18-2007, 04:48 PM
I really hope after all this, that the first test run train doesn't go flying out of the trough or something. lol

At the rate they're going, I'm beginning to suspect a very late 07 opening or early 08.

Leo C
04-19-2007, 06:45 PM
Luckily I'm close enough to the park to give them the patience to get this thing done.

04-19-2007, 09:45 PM
My question is what is the difference between a flying turn and a bobsled coaster. If this was answered I'm sorry but I didn't see it...

Ryan F
04-19-2007, 10:00 PM
My guess is just that one is wooden, and one isn't.
I can't see any other differences. Not like one can do inversions or anything special that the other can't.

04-19-2007, 11:18 PM
Arent the cars different as well? Slightly anyways.

Jerry S
04-20-2007, 03:50 PM
Bobsleds have trains, flying turns have cars. Technically, Intamin Bobsleds are Flying Turns.

Johnny Upsidedown
04-20-2007, 04:59 PM
Flying Turns is just a name used for this coaster. They are part of the Bobsled type coaster category. Bobsled I would say are any of the trough designed rides. Some have various trains, some are wood but generally they are about the same..

Jim S.
04-20-2007, 05:22 PM
I've never been on a bobsled coaster, but I was under the impression that a Flying Turns (aside from the wood issue) was specifically a very tightly-turning ride whereas a regular bobsled coaster was spread out a little more like an actual bobsled run.

As for cars vs. trains, the Flying Turns have all, as far as I know, had trains of cars, although I think in RCT they call a single-car ride a Flying Turns. I don't know where they got that.

Johnny Upsidedown
04-20-2007, 05:46 PM
My guess would be something along the lines of the Hyper coaster generation of coasters. Its a basic roller coaster with a coined catch phrase. So I am thinking back in the day when the Flying Turns were built in the 1930 to 1935 era. It was something similar where if you heard the name flying truns at another park you know what it was.

It may also be that the orginal designs of the ride were coined as Flying Turns and later has been just classified as a bobsled coaster because of later developments of the rides. I have heard Steve refer to it as a bobsled coaster.
I will ask Coastin Steve in my next email if he would ask Mr Fetterman for what would be the classification, as he my know the answer or have a good explination.

For me I would just go with a the bobsled category only because it is the basic ride design.

04-21-2007, 12:01 PM
I was wondering about that too, but figured it was just a matter of who built it. E.g. Inverted/Suspended Looping Coaster, Suspended/Swinging Turns. etc.

Mind you, it's "Head Scratchers" like this, and the amount of thought people like us invest into them is what sets us apart from all the others on this little Blue "Coaster filled" Planet of ours.

04-22-2007, 09:02 PM
I don't think there is a difference in flying turns versus a bobsled coaster. Flying turns were invented with an airplane theme to so simulate flight on an aircrapt. The trough design was used to allow the cars to bank with the natural forces acting on it as apposed to a train fixed on a track that will only bank how it is designed. In this way I supposed it was supposed to feel like flying through turns in an air craft, hence the name. The modern versions were not themed to airplanes and at their conception were more marketed as a bobsled ride. Purists could say that a flying turns is a wooden version, but it's really all about what the rides were designed and marketed to simulate from the beginning that gave them their categories.

Johnny Upsidedown
04-22-2007, 09:07 PM
Some new photos from last week, hopefully they will be up on the smugmug site soon that Steve has which have larger versions of the photos.. Still long way to go.

Jim S.
04-25-2007, 05:36 PM
Here are some aerial photos: http://www.flyinphilsphotos.com/coasters/knoebels/flyingturns/album0.html

As you can see, it has a lot of turns. :)

04-25-2007, 05:41 PM
I thought they had more than that done. Isn't it supposed to be open by this summer?

Jim S.
04-25-2007, 06:26 PM
They said they were hoping it would be open this summer, they didn't give an exact time. Remember that nobody has built one in a long time. There hasn't even been one running in over 30 years.

There's a little more done since the photos, which are almost a month old, but yes, there's still a lot to go. The station needs built, the lifts need the mechanical parts installed, the helix needs finished, and bits of track connecting the troughs and the lifts need built.

Hopefully better and longer days will result in faster construction.

Johnny Upsidedown
05-02-2007, 04:56 PM
Looks pretty good from the latest large photos.
Hit previous to see more.
From Coastin Steve, over on RRC
This weekend was Knoebels opening for the 2007 season.
Because of this, work by the FT crew ended up being on "other
things", so progress during the week was minimal.
Waiting for steel rings to get back from the galvanizer, and w/ the
WNYCC constr tour,
any work that went on this weekend was prep work, and done on the
This is some of the work that doesn't show
any visual progress to the ride, but is just as important in the constr
of the trough.

It seemed as tho the WNYCC event was a success.
Around 180 attendees gathered to eat pizza and listen to Dick
Knoebel, took the constr tour of the Flying Turns main section trough
and enjoyed an ERT session on the PHLYIN!! Phoenix and the Twister.
The Phoenix was running the best I think I've ever experienced and
the work they've done to the Twister's lower campground turn can really
be felt.
It was something, I didn't really think the Twister's lower
campground turn was that bad @ the last PPP, til I felt how good that
part is now. It just seems to take all of the energy that the train
has comng out of the post helix drop, and transfers it into it's timber
corridor run.

The constr tour went well. Some of carpenters involved in the
building of the ride stationed themselves at various spots and answered
questions the best they could.
(we're working on the "track", we know nothing about the trains lol )
I was delighted to see many familiar faces from riding the coasters
here in PA.
Everyones' reaction was pretty much the same, WOW !! I know
I've tried to share w/ all of you, the amazing way this ride has come
together in pictures. But a picture can't compare to actually standing
in that trough and seeing what's been done by bending wood.
I'm one of the ones who's doing it, and it amazes me <G>

When Dick Knoebel spoke at the pizza picnic it was a short but
informative speech. He started by amusing us by showing just how few
actual members there were in the WNYCC and from there discussed park
improvements for 2007 and finally about the Flying Turns
When he was asked about the trains he really didn't have much to say
other than the whole process of creating a prototype train is a long and
involved one. Because of this, the ride will only have 1 train built
for it initially, until they are sure that everything about the train
is "correct"
And when asked the "When?" question, Mr K responded that "We're
trying to get the ride open in the beginning of July"

I've added a bunch more photos to Cyclonic's Smugmug page. I
also move the link to that page to the first page of my FTF page

thanks for reading and following the rides progress

07-17-2007, 03:00 PM

Knoebel's is finally testing with a chasis and train! YAY! Who's going to PPP?

07-17-2007, 04:22 PM
Yay! It hasn't flown off the track!

I was a little concerned really since noone has built one of these in what 80 years? lol

That will be a 5 hour wait with only 1 train. :(

I'll try and get up there next year for sure.

07-17-2007, 04:24 PM
There are 5 trains. They carry two people each. I would say probably about an hour wait.

Jim S.
07-17-2007, 05:16 PM
Just to clarify: the train will be 5 cars, holding 2 people each. There are supposed to be 3 trains, but there may only be one at opening. Also, this is a rigged test. As of last Friday, there are still two pieces of track missing and no chains on the lifts.

I wasn't there for Twister's opening, but I'm assuming that the sign on the bridge saying that there's a 2 1/2 hour wait from that point is there for a reason.

07-17-2007, 05:34 PM
It looks like the train had some pretty wicked banking in the trough on that turn. Looks like the pacing is going to be great! I'm so excited to see something rolled down the trough!

10-12-2007, 06:00 PM
Man, I honestly don't understand the purpose of building this attraction... It won't open for some time yet based on what i read on screamscape just now, it has horrible capacity and has been delayed for going on 2 years... I honestly just fail to see the point. It would have been a better idea to just tell mach to build a bobsled coaster and get a theming company to build a wood trough on the the outside of the track and structure or something, give the classic look but modern ride... Improvements in technology occur for a reason the way I see it. Theres probably a reason why we haven't seen a wood tracked bobsled coaster in so many years.

With how hyped up this coaster is I am expecting to be let down.

10-12-2007, 06:14 PM
This ride will give a completley different ride than a Mack Bobsled. Watching the very short video clip of it testing makes it look like it will be a wild ride. If you have ever been to Knoebel's, you would understand how this ride is a perfect fit for the park.

10-12-2007, 06:26 PM
The structure is done. The testing has started already. It will be ready for opening day next season.

Here is a pic of the train (only had one and a half chasis done for PPP, but you will get the idea. Only seatbelts will be on this by the way.) There will be a total of 10 people riding in one train at a time.

Knoebels has had reasons that this coaster hasn't opened sooner. The designer is only part time designing due to the fact he is an actual mechanic in the park. If something in the park breaks that takes precedent first.

Anyway here are the trains.

This is a very quiet ride and it's only 2 minutes and 17 seconds from lift hill to break run. It has three lift hills and the curves on this baby are amazing.

10-12-2007, 06:38 PM
This ride will give a completley different ride than a Mack Bobsled. Watching the very short video clip of it testing makes it look like it will be a wild ride. If you have ever been to Knoebel's, you would understand how this ride is a perfect fit for the park.

I understand that the park likes the idea of classic ride experiences and everything, but with all questions still in the air about the trains and the track still after all this time I question how sound of a decision it is business wise.

10-15-2007, 05:13 AM
^That is the kind of thinking that has squashed the classic amusement park. Everything is about nickels and dimes and not about the love of what you do. Knoebel's loves what they do and take pride in the craftsmenship and care that is necessary for a place like it. I think it's fantastic what they are doing. They knew they were taking a risk on this project from the get go, but I think it is bringing them to a whole new level. The reason these aren't built in my opinion is because the quality and art of it has been lost. Everyone wants everything to happen fast, cheap, and with little effort. It's a shame really.

Where can you see a video of a test run?

10-15-2007, 06:34 AM

^Credit: BuddyChrist of GAdv Source Forums.

10-15-2007, 07:18 AM
Those trains are horrible! I love the original trains that the original Flying Turns had. Yes I'm talking about the Rivewrview Flying Turns. The one that was originally built for The Century Of Progress. On the video "Riverview Gone But Not Forgotten" You get a P.O.V. on the Flying Turns in the original cars. I'd rather have the Art Deco look of those cars.

10-15-2007, 09:46 AM
This isn't built after the Turns at Riverview. It's a recreation from Euclid.

10-15-2007, 04:04 PM
Went to Knoebels in late August...it looks like they are close to running...the flood last year put a "damper" on the project. It looks pretty neat. A bit small..but fun. Hey, if anyone goes there...you gotta go on the flat that they have next to Flying Turns, The Looper.

Jim S.
10-15-2007, 06:07 PM
^And the other ride next to Flying Turns, the Flyers!

Leo C
10-15-2007, 07:14 PM
A lift at the end back into the station? I was concerned about braking.

Jim S.
10-16-2007, 12:17 PM
The brakes work fine when the train gets onto them. The latest report is that a 5-car train has been tested and they're going to need longer guides than they thought to get it to go smoothly from the trough to the straight track.

03-05-2008, 09:07 AM
Sorry for the epic bump.

Someone posted a link to a POV on CoasterForce that they said they got from the EEC newsletter.

http://rollercoasterfreak.com/2008_ACE_Eve...sh/IMGP8637.MOV (http://rollercoasterfreak.com/2008_ACE_Events/CoasterBash/IMGP8637.MOV)

03-05-2008, 02:13 PM
That thing really gets to rocking side to side. It is short but the lift hills and beginning helix will make it seem a lot longer I'm sure.

Leo C
03-05-2008, 03:23 PM
Despite all the setbacks we cross our fingers this thing comes through soon.

03-07-2008, 04:39 PM
This isn't built after the Turns at Riverview. It's a recreation from Euclid.
Are you sure? Cause Dick Knoebel told me it was based on the original prints from Century of Progress. I think you're wrong, sorry.

Just did my homework, Flying Turns and Euclids are based on the original Flying Turns at the Century of Progress. (Which was re-located to Riverview.) Infact Parts of the T-structure was salvaged from Riverview by Ralph Lopez and used as the basis of Knoebles Tubes.

03-07-2008, 04:56 PM
^And the other ride next to Flying Turns, the Flyers!
Check out www.flyeraddicts.com (http://www.flyeraddicts.com)

03-08-2008, 07:22 AM
This flying turns ride is very short. I was expecting more. And please tell me that there is some difference between this and Disaster Transport at Cedar Point - other than DT is enclosed and not made of wood.