PDA

View Full Version : It's YOUR Fault, not mine



Dave
05-17-2007, 06:22 PM
I am kinda new to these forums and I have heard many things about it. I have noticed that there is zero accountability on this site. It is always YOUR problem and never the site's problem. The mentality of the admins is that they are god. Why is this?

Katie
05-17-2007, 07:05 PM
Uhhhh, is there something you are smoking that you aren't sharing with the rest of us?

What are you talking about?

Diesel
05-17-2007, 07:38 PM
To whom does the "your" and "mine" in the title relate?

Are you mockingly paraphasing or are these your words?

Otherwise, one of best totally random posts we've had since the "yellow box" thread.

Wes
05-17-2007, 10:10 PM
No accountability? Uh dude, check out all the bans in the ban thread and see how fast people get a ban for many reasons.

The admins do not think they are "god" IMO. I'm on staff and I see the behind the scenes things that go on and trust me, no ones going around saying "ha ha ha I banned 3 people today! I'm god!!!"

None of the mods get a power trip off of this site.

Leo C
05-17-2007, 10:26 PM
The only "god" situation I've saw here was just one April Fool's Day. It was only a joke that day like it is every year. It was over the next. The mods I've seen here are good, responsible members. The site was down for a month over the summer a few years ago. They posted an explaination - we kept the faith as we waited for the return. They handled the situation quite well. I always go with the flow as a member here. The mods are great Big brothers.

Steven
05-18-2007, 12:05 AM
I'm moving this to Gen. Questions...

Do you even understand how much work it takes for us?

I hate to say this... all bans, deleted posts, etc., are recorded and archived. It holds the moderators accountable for their actions, and no, I don't always agree with what they do, and have reversed some decisions.

Also, Diesel seems to raise an excellent question. Need I say he got himself banned a while back, and we reinstated him after some time? As we say here, it is the member that gets themselves in trouble, and it is the member that gets themselves banned.

Dave
05-18-2007, 01:34 AM
"As we say here, it is the member that gets themselves in trouble, and it is the member that gets themselves banned."

Exactly my point. There seems to be no accountability and whenever someone seems to have a gripe, it is the member's fault and admin has absolutely nothing to do with it. That quote right there sums up what I am talking about.

Jimmy B
05-18-2007, 02:13 AM
Members don't get in trouble for griping; they get in trouble for violating the Terms of Serivce or Forums Ettiquete, which they have agreed to abide by upon registration. Please think before you post.

And if you really are new to our forums as you say you are, then you dont realize how much accountability moreso rests on the staff than on members.

Brian F
05-18-2007, 02:32 AM
Well, let's see: The rules are posted, and every member has to agree to them to start an account. If they break the rules, they are warned before further action is taken. Suspensions usually precede bans (giving the member opportunities to stop whatever actions have run afoul of the rules they agreed to)

Because we don't allow excessive misspelling or bad grammar, we have links to browser spell checkers available. Some moderators even include links to these spellcheckers in warning messages.

We don't want to ban people for breaking the rules, we want people to abide by the rules.

But apparently, we're doing this all wrong. And we never even knew.

Dave, please- since you have all of the answers, please share them with us. Show us how we're doing it wrong. More importantly show us how to do it right.

Seriously, if you have ideas or suggestions as to how to improve, share them. We'll pay attention.

By the way, in your first post in this thread, you said "The mentality of the admins is that they are god." For this usage, the word "god" should be either capitalized or pluralized. No big deal, just trying to help. :)

Kyle L
05-18-2007, 02:37 AM
I am kinda new to these forums and I have heard many things about it. I have noticed that there is zero accountability on this site. It is always YOUR problem and never the site's problem. The mentality of the admins is that they are god. Why is this?

I actually understand what you're saying.

A stereotype that floats around on this site is that we take things really seriously and have no sense of humor. The common phrase "The Internet Is Serious Business" often floats around with our names on it. I've heard a lot of people mention this, hence why you feel that the admins feel sort of eliteist.

That said, I mean, so long as you follow the rules I think you should be okay. Also, a lot of people get banned for pretty stupid reasons, and if you have questions you should ask, not assume that we'll answer it for you.

But honestly, I get where you are coming from, but I mean, it's not really that hard to be around here, I've been here for 6 years, and I haven't been banned.

Steven
05-18-2007, 06:45 AM
Exactly my point. There seems to be no accountability and whenever someone seems to have a gripe, it is the member's fault and admin has absolutely nothing to do with it. That quote right there sums up what I am talking about.

First off, before you go any further, we have staff titles, and you're using "admin" way too loosely. Be a lot more specific. If it's a moderator in their title, say moderator. If it's an editor, say an editor. If it's truly an administrator (myself, Alex, or Graham), then use the term admin. I should've said that right off.

Second, you're not banned yet, are you? You're arguing with staff right now, and if we were like that, you would have been banned already.

Third, staff do have accountability. What members fail to do is follow our chain of command. They automatically assume that I'm going to have their back on every decision. Well, in many cases, I do, and that's only after reviewing all the evidence (posts, emails, etc.) and concluding the member is at fault because of the clear violations of our Terms of Use. There have been times I have reversed decisions made by other staff because of mistakes made or that there was not a violation. In extreme cases, I have even dismissed people from staff, sometimes banning them. As Jimmy said, the staff are held to a higher level because they're expected to know and enforce the rules. Yes, I do have evidence of these actions, and if you want them, just ask.

So, if you can provide me good evidence that you feel we have zero accountability (which there have been none... I almost feel that this is just an empty argument), then I can't argue any further.

Wes
05-18-2007, 07:42 AM
"As we say here, it is the member that gets themselves in trouble, and it is the member that gets themselves banned."

Exactly my point. There seems to be no accountability and whenever someone seems to have a gripe, it is the member's fault and admin has absolutely nothing to do with it. That quote right there sums up what I am talking about.

As you state here again you believe there is no accountability. However there is.

To put it simply, no staff is "above the law" on this site.

Staff members have been booted off staff and even banned from this site in recent history.

Graham
05-18-2007, 09:37 AM
Dave,

The staff are always open to suggestions from members as to how we could improve the site. If you have some constructive suggestions I would love to hear them. I will admit there are many areas on this site which have room for growth and improvement. I encourage you and any member to get involved and help out or make suggestions and let your opinions be heard. This site is just as much the member's as it is the staff's site. None of us here get paid; we help out because we want to improve the site and share out talents with others. If you want to see change please, make some suggestions I, and other staffers, are willing to hear.

Unfortunately there are some suggestions that we cannot put into effect. For example we do have to monitor the forums to some extent. We do this in order to try and make everyone's experience the best it possibly can be.

Anyway, please post some suggestions for us and we can discuss them.

Thanks,
Graham Kelly

Dave
05-18-2007, 10:14 AM
From Steven: "(which there have been none... I almost feel that this is just an empty argument), then I can't argue any further."

From Katie: "Uhhhh, is there something you are smoking that you aren't sharing with the rest of us?"


Denial. Those two statements yet again sum up my argument. The "God" syndrome. "We can't possibly be wrong, you are crazy" seems to be common place among some of you. I'm not making a stereotype to all staff, just certain ones. From what I have seen it has only been a few.

Constructive advice:

1. Admit you are wrong when you are wrong,

2. Lighten up, it is a forum about a fun subject, only complain about the stuff that really matters, for example, vulgarity, advertising, havoc wreaking, and other stuff like that. Yes I know grammar issues and misspellings can get annoying, but that in context is not that big of a deal, this is not the New York Times or any other professional venue like that.

Those two issues right there are the main ones and they are huge. They are the two basic issues. There are so many offshoots of those two issues.

Brian F
05-18-2007, 11:27 AM
That's a bit of a turnaround. In post #14, you said "I'm not making a stereotype to all staff, just certain ones. From what I have seen it has only been a few."

In posts #1 and #7, you did stereotype all of the TN staff.

What you need to do is to take this up with Steven. He's the in charge guy around here. If you come on in the open forum and make a blanket statement againt the staff in general, you're not giving him anything to act upon. If you give him specifics, and the complaint is valid, he can (and will) do his job as administrator. If a staffer is out of line, he has no problem dropping the hammer as hard as he has to. The truth of the matter is that staff are held to higher accountability than members. As a member, you won't see this unless you are looking very closely.

Steven
05-18-2007, 11:44 AM
In that case, it's all you. All I said is that I can't argue any further because I felt it is an empty argument. It's my opinion. Did I close and delete the thread? No. Did I ban you? No.

Katie's comment... I can't explain... she'll have to respond to that directly.

About spelling/grammar... the fact is, people really do look dumb when it gets excessive, and not everyone can read shorthand and txt speak. However, everyone can read properly constructed sentences with proper spelling. While I don't mind a couple of mistakes (I make a few myself), people not bothering to take their time and post a quality post. It even helps people think things through a little, and even when they have the sudden urge to flame another member, that extra time may allow a cooler head to prevail. And no, I don't buy such excuses like dyslexia, as I have friends and family with that, and they can work with it... it just takes a little longer, and maybe an edit or two.

I also do admit when I am wrong.

medieval
05-18-2007, 12:17 PM
I am not apart of the staff here, but I am an Admin of my own forum.

As is may seem that there is zero accountability for forums, well, its hard to really account for anything, since staff members cannot control what people post, until they see it.

I am going to use my forum for an example. This is from my TOS: (Terms of Service)
"Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary."

Usually, websites have something similar to this, in their own way.
For example, if you were to work for a theme park, and release information about the new hit roller coaster that was coming out, and the park found out who that person was, the person would get fired. In that case, it is the members fault for posting that, and the website has no responsibility towards it. They can, however, delete the post, and/or move it to a private section if the theme park asks them to for review.
But in general, it is more of a members accountability rather then the website.

And with the Spelling and Grammar part, as Steven has said, and this is also my opinion, if you feel to type out more constructive sentences rather then internet shorthand, it looks more professional and it also looks you thought more about what you want to say and how you were going to word it properly. There are also, teenagers, along with adults who post on websites as like this one, who may not understand internet shorthand, which, I do understand, as I do not understand much of it myself, since I do not use it.


With all that said, I hope it helps.

Dave
05-18-2007, 01:20 PM
"Did I close and delete the thread? No. Did I ban you? No. "

Did I suggest that? No. That further cements my point. I don't need to bring sources because you have brought them for me.

edh101985
05-18-2007, 02:41 PM
This will solve all your problems. If you don't like the site, Then.............


Don't post here!

Joseph
05-18-2007, 03:04 PM
First off, before you go any further, we have staff titles, and you're using "admin" way too loosely. Be a lot more specific. If it's a moderator in their title, say moderator. If it's an editor, say an editor. If it's truly an administrator (myself, Alex, or Graham), then use the term admin. I should've said that right off.
here is something to roll one's eyes at a lot: taking things so damned seriously around here. Its insane. Who cares what he called you guys? Its all basically the same, if TN was a college then you all would have offices in the administration building. Some may be in the bursar's office, some may be in the records office, while others may be in the student services department. But youre all still part of the administration / management. Why you would take the time to point this out is beyond me. Almost at stupid as my rant.

I think I get what this poster has been saying. I also see his point has been playing out in this thread, but at the same time if you want the staff to change you probably should at least point out where the faults are. By the nature of the situation, if you say someone isn't taking responsibility, it would be naive if you thought they would know what you were talking about.

I suggest you bring the sources. It would make this thread a lot more entertaining. This coming from a former staff member.

At least they finally banned the kid posting other peoples' photos.

Johnny Upsidedown
05-18-2007, 03:24 PM
Somebody help me please, my brain hurts from trying to understand all this important GOD stuff. I didnt know Steven was in the bible.

I dont understand why you would come to a moderated forum board if you dont want to follow the rules or have the rules inforced on you. I still dont understand what staff member is potraying GOD. I thought I was him!!!

Accountability, you should go on Staff and see just how much accountability there is on this site. You just can imagine how much work goes into making this site enjoyable.

Kyle L
05-18-2007, 04:35 PM
From Katie: "Uhhhh, is there something you are smoking that you aren't sharing with the rest of us?"


2. Lighten up

Dude, Katie was trying to just be funny and shed some light other than "You're wrong, we're right".

Get a grip, I mean I'm willing to understand you so long as you aren't going to just lash it back at our faces.

Steven
05-18-2007, 09:34 PM
Did I suggest that? No. That further cements my point. I don't need to bring sources because you have brought them for me.

Those comments reflect what I got off of what you were saying, like you were thinking I'd do those things just for this thread. Plus, I think that was a bad example, because I feel a staff without any accountability would do just that, and we have dismissed staff for that reason. Then, we have to deal with things like this thread, as one of my pet peeves is that no one understands that people can email me through my profile if they have a gripe with me or something about the site.

I think Johnny had a great post there. It is because I am in the Bible... there is an 11th commandment... "Thou shalt not piss off Steven". :D Seriously though... you don't have to agree with everything I say or do. Johnny sure doesn't. But, at least he's contacted me to express concerns, where we could hash things out.

Diesel
05-18-2007, 10:03 PM
I'm contacting the gods to request a vulgarity waiver after 10:00pm.

#### !

Anyway, my instinct is to support Dave on this one, just to keep the thread entertaining, however, am I the only one that just doesn't totally get what he's saying?

slipknot8527
05-19-2007, 02:22 AM
Dear Dave,

IT'S THE INTERNET. PLEASE STOP MAKING IT SO SERIOUS.

Theres this great invention that was implemented in I believe, 1995. If you will look at the top right of your screen, there enlies 3 icons. The, I believe, far right one is an X. I don't know, maybe your computer is different, but from what I gather based on my research, what that button does is allow you to close the window that is making you so hostile, and it also allows you to GO OUTSIDE AND GET A LIFE.

Love,

Everyone here.

Steven
05-19-2007, 10:46 AM
Diesel: You're not the only one.

Slipknot: LOL

apsterling
05-19-2007, 11:46 AM
Nice, Slipknot - my computer is different. ;)

As far as TN and the thread goes - you don't have to post, and you don't have to be entirely serious, just enough to keep within, at least in my opinion, easy guidelines. I'm not serious on here, I mean, look at Diesel and Slipknot in this thread, they are definitely not serious, but they are within guidelines. You don't have to come here.

And it seems like you're just in this thread to fight the higher powers that be, at least to me. They aren't God, and you aren't an Atheist. Please, get over it.

Johnny Upsidedown
05-19-2007, 01:55 PM
I think Johnny had a great post there. It is because I am in the Bible... there is an 11th commandment... "Thou shalt not piss off Steven". :D Seriously though... you don't have to agree with everything I say or do. Johnny sure doesn't. But, at least he's contacted me to express concerns, where we could hash things out.

I thought we werent going to talk about that, I said I was sorry :p . Really though, Steven is very easy to contact and discuss things with. You are correct I dont agree with alot of things and well, as a paying customer of the site it is my right to complain or make suggestions in the proper maner. Yes I said paying customer, you have advertisments on the site so in a sense we are all paying customers.

Thou shalt not piss off Steven, I think that is the only rule you need to know here at Thrillnetwork after all its pretty much his website. :D

This is going to be my new favorite topic, seems alot of people have replied with a responsible opinion of the topic. Of coarse my favorite topic is this one http://www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/showthread.php?t=27449

Brian F
05-20-2007, 04:30 AM
Actually, in the bible, Steven was stoned (Acts 7:57) :)

As far as this thread goes: Dave, you're doing one of two things, here.

1) You're trying to make this a better place, and solve a real problem. If this is the case, you'll take it up with Steven in private. You'll give him specific examples of people who are causing what you see to be a problem, and what they did that you see as a problem.

OR

2) You're just whining and taking random potshots, making sure to remain vague enough that nobody can take you very seriously. I'm unsure why you would be so unwilling to give specifics, unless you don't have any.

Kyle L
05-20-2007, 03:49 PM
Dear Dave,

IT'S THE INTERNET. PLEASE STOP MAKING IT SO SERIOUS.

Theres this great invention that was implemented in I believe, 1995. If you will look at the top right of your screen, there enlies 3 icons. The, I believe, far right one is an X. I don't know, maybe your computer is different, but from what I gather based on my research, what that button does is allow you to close the window that is making you so hostile, and it also allows you to GO OUTSIDE AND GET A LIFE.

Love,

Everyone here.

Yeah in case you run Apple's OSX click the top far left red dot.

rjholla2003
05-21-2007, 01:11 AM
I think that Dave suckered everyone in on his lame attempt to bash the staff. The argument has been beyond baseless the whole time, and when presented with logic, he either ignores it, or latches onto one thing. Thrillnetwork is no more strict than any other forum on the internet. All you have to do is follow the rules to which you agreed when you joined (simple ones at that!) and you're good to go. Having been a staff member on one site, and currently being an administrator on another site, I have noted that the real problem doesn't seem to be the rules of any forums, but the lack of the desire of people to hold themselves accountable for their actions.

Joseph, the difference in titles matters a lot, especially on a site like TN. I understand your analogy about the university administration building, but it can also be used to show why the titles are important. You wouldn't go to the bursar to apply for Financial Aid. You wouldn't go to the President to pay your tuition. On Thrillnetwork, you wouldn't go to an editor if you had a problem with an administrator, and you wouldn't go to a moderator if you had a technical problem with the site. Different titles are for different roles, which provide different functions.

Steven
05-21-2007, 08:22 AM
He came out the sucker here. He hasn't given me specific examples except for shallow quotes from myself and Katie. I think he just wanted to pick a fight, and couldn't do it. I can't take him seriously now. As an admin, you realize you can't spend every time on every argument, and you have to be able to pick and choose. The best way is ensuring that the burden of proof is on the person who started it (Dave).

And yes, titles do make a difference, as rjholla points out.

Diesel
05-21-2007, 10:26 PM
I'll agree with Dave on the titles.

I never know with whom to speak, and don't care much to try to figure it out.

But since I generally don't complain, I'll just wait from Swillnetwork 3.0.

Jerry S
05-22-2007, 03:49 PM
my instinct is to support Dave on this one, just to keep the thread entertaining

Hahahaha lol. That's probably the first time that I actually laughed out loud on ThrillNetwork.

Dave, I think what you're really picking on isn't the staff, but the TOS itself. The staff follows the TOS by the book, with a bit of humor as seen in this thread. They don't do anything they aren't supposed to, and they don't skimp out on doing what they have to to keep ThrillNetwork the site that it is.

If you have a problem with the TOS, you shouldn't have agreed to it. People don't pick on contracts after they sign them, right?

Of course, if you think you can do it better, go by a site on a good, solid, reliable server, hire some staff, write the layout, and get your own started. I'm sure it'll be better than ThrillNetwork in no time.