Let me just clear up what an atheist is, because some people like fbama73 have a completely misconstrued idea. All an atheist is is a person who is not a theist. That's it. I am an atheist, and I don't know whether or not a god exists. But since I have been given absolutely no reason to believe that one should, I hold no belief in one. Atheism does not mean that you know a god doesn't exist. It doesn't mean that you think you are a god, even though slipknot made a good metaphor. The thing that gets to me the most about religious conversations is that nobody knows what the hell an atheist is, so all arguments are based on wrong ideas.

Agnosticism is also completely misunderstood. An agnostic could be an atheist and could be a theist, but you can't be an agnostic without being one or the other. Agnosticism deals with the knowledge of existence of deities while theism and atheism deal with the belief of existence of deities. Do you see the difference? Nobody, no matter what they say, actually "knows" a god exists, they only have faith in it or don't have faith in it. So we are all technically agnostics by correct definition.

As for the passing out of porn in exchange for Bibles, I agree that it's tactless but come on. Nobody is forced to trade in their Bible. If you don't like it, walk right by it. I have to deal with preachers almost every day on campus and I walk right by them without paying them any attention.

[QUOTE=Hammy2003]There are two reasons that Christians, even though are the majority in the states, are given a bad rep. (1) The opposite end of the spectrum resents any views but their own, and go out of their way to attempt to invalidate or prove wrong any ideas that don't parallel with their own. (2) There actually are an extremely small portion of the Christian bunch who are wackos, and actually do what they hate about the "other side" ... try to prove everybody wrong, and make themselves look like idiots.[/QUOTE]

My main reasons for not thinking Christianity is a good idea in any way, shape, or form roots from childhood experiences and not from wackos. Wackos are at the bottom of my list.

From pre-school until about 2nd grade I went to a Catholic school in Chicago, and then moved to another neighborhood which has a high Asian and Jewish population. I almost got expelled in 3rd grade because of the crap that Catholic school taught me. The nuns told us that Jewish kids have tails like Satan and other complete BS that I really got into a whole heapload of trouble for. They also told us that the Jews killed Jesus when it was really the Romans. Now that I'm friends with a good portion of Jewish kids I know that they don't have tails and aren't going to try and eat me or something.

I have an grand-aunt who is a nun, she helped out with founding Loyola in Chicago. She has told us never to adopt a 3rd world kid or something like that because your about 50 of your 80 cents a day does not go to helping the kid. If you think about it that's rather true because if any of you remember the UNICEF talks, you'd remember a bowl of rice was 2 cents and an immunization was 10 or something. Where's the other money going to?

I'm also not a fan of missionaries who went in and completely messed up everyone's lives in countries like Africa. The tribes were doing fine until we stepped in and screwed everything up. People who refused to join the new religion have been killed. I don't think god would really have liked that idea, but I guess the people who did it got into heaven anyways because they believed.

The church in general refuses to grow up. Pope Pius during WWII didn't do crap and took the wuss way out. I don't want to hear about how he saved 800,000 people. I know that is good and all but he could have done a ton more. Priests are raping kids, and absolute facts years ago have turned out to be completely wrong. An example would be the geocentric theory that involved the Earth sitting in a great sphere of black with holes punched in it, and the holes were light from heaven.

Basically it's the scandals and lies I've been told by the church from a very young age, and a little bit of thinking on my part that has lead to believe it's just a giant scam. I think it was created to keep order, just like the caste system in India. I don't like the idea of being the product of an incestuous relationship in a garden. Noah's ark is impossible, a cobra and a polar bear cannot get along, you couldn't have climate controlled a ship like that way back when, you couldn't feed the animals, and you couldn't make a boat big enough. Nothing makes sense.

Had it not been for the stupid idea of Christian Science I would have another aunt. They killed my aunt. If her parents would have taken her to a normal hospitol she wouldn't have died of pnemonia at age 6.

Also if you REALLY have to believe in Jesus and all of that crap to get into heaven and not just be a good person in general, then I must say that god is an incredibly selfish person.

[quote=Matt M]I mean eartquakes never happen[/quote]
I'm not saying I'm on his side, but how can you say that? Earthquakes happen sometime frequently. An example would be the one on the Indian Ocean floor that caused the Tsunami that killed thousands last December, or the one of recent mainly in Pakistan which has killed over 80,000. So don't say that they never happen.

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[QUOTE=G_Adv_123]I'm not saying I'm on his side, but how can you say that? Earthquakes happen sometime frequently. An example would be the one on the Indian Ocean floor that caused the Tsunami that killed thousands last December, or the one of recent mainly in Pakistan which has killed over 80,000. So don't say that they never happen.[/QUOTE]

You don't pick up sarcasm do you?

From my understanding, an agnostic strongly doubts there is no god. An atheist is 100% sure that there is no god, and nothing could suade him...much as very religious people are 100% sure god does exist, and nothing could change THEIR minds.

I've been judged my whole life because of simply not believing in god. I'm mostly labeled a satan worshipper, and going to hell. I think the idea of satan, and hell, is more absurd than the idea of a god.

I think organized religion is a good thing, because it gives people hope...it gives people who may be depressed, or down on their luck, something to look forward to each week. In my opinion, religion gives people hope for the afterlife, since the number one fear in America is death.

Death scares me too, but I could never pretend like I do believe in a god or an afterlife, because I would just be kidding myself. I'm far too much of a realist, and a pessimistic to believe such. That's the reason I call myself an atheist, is because although I think it's cool that others put som much faith, time and money into something, it's not for me, and it never will be.

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Noah's ark is impossible? Why have researchers found so much wood scraps, and cut lumber up on Mt. Arrarat, which is the place where the ark came to rest in the bible. Along with fossils of ocean animals on that and other mountains in that area. That alone suggests the facts for a global flood. And nothing could have survived that kind of flood, unless it were in a safe place, which would be a boat. I'm sure that when ocean liners were first built, people were of the notion that no one could build a boat big enough to comfortably hold thousands of people and hundreds, if not thousands of tons of cargo. And 40 days isn't really that long, it is just 10 days more than a month.

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[QUOTE=slipknot8527]From my understanding, an agnostic strongly doubts there is no god. An atheist is 100% sure that there is no god, and nothing could suade him...much as very religious people are 100% sure god does exist, and nothing could change THEIR minds. [/quote]

This is the common misconception. What you are talking about (an atheist who claims he is 100% sure there is no god) is strong atheism. Weak atheism means holding no belief in god. There's a difference between saying "There is no god!" and saying "I don't believe in a god." You can still not believe in a god and admit you don't know for sure. If you can't answer yes to the question "Do I believe in a god?" you are not a theist and therefore you are an atheist, even if you are unsure on the issue.

[quote]
I think organized religion is a good thing, because it gives people hope...it gives people who may be depressed, or down on their luck, something to look forward to each week. In my opinion, religion gives people hope for the afterlife, since the number one fear in America is death.

Death scares me too, but I could never pretend like I do believe in a god or an afterlife, because I would just be kidding myself. I'm far too much of a realist, and a pessimistic to believe such. That's the reason I call myself an atheist, is because although I think it's cool that others put som much faith, time and money into something, it's not for me, and it never will be.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this.

[QUOTE=coasterlove]I think it's sad really but not even as a Catholic or Christian but as a human being. First I have nothing against porn, I have a small collection of it. It's that the fact that people are there trying to diminish what others believe and if you think about what they're doing, it's quite insulting.

If they want to be atheists, that's fine, it's their right and that's part of what makes this country great. I don't see any reason for them to try and convince others that there is no God. I know that some Christians do a similar thing by trying to spread their word to those who don't want to hear it either and I'm not condoning that either. I just think people should leave others be and let them believe what they want to and not pull off promotional stunts that can be very offensive.[/QUOTE]


You gotta have porn, your name is coaster love. I disagree though, I mean people can do it but i never would. I would rather have both.

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haha, yeah, NASCARLuver, I heard that too after I posted it...(my roomate corrected me.)

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The bible is fine for those that can read and porn is fine for those that cant. Believe in what ever you want religion wise because thats between you and your maker in the end. :devil:

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[QUOTE=Gemini78]Noah's ark is impossible? Why have researchers found so much wood scraps, and cut lumber up on Mt. Arrarat, which is the place where the ark came to rest in the bible. Along with fossils of ocean animals on that and other mountains in that area.[/QUOTE]

The plates move. That's what causes a good number of earthquakes. Also everything died if I remember. If everything died except the animals on the ark then why are there ocean animals there?

[QUOTE=slipknot8527]From my understanding, an agnostic strongly doubts there is no god. An atheist is 100% sure that there is no god, and nothing could suade him...much as very religious people are 100% sure god does exist, and nothing could change THEIR minds.

[/QUOTE]

This has always been my understanding as well, but I have gone by pure definitions of the words, not by reasonable discourse with agnostics or atheists.

And I respect anyone's rights to believe, or not believe, or doubt anything they want to. I also personally respect you for the way you've articulated yourself in this thread.

Don't judge all Christians (or any other theist) by the actions of those who call you "satan worshipper" or any other such nonsense. I won't judge all atheists by the guy who has made all of the vile false accusations about Christians in general. I have friends who are atheists- I know better!

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[quote]Noah's ark is impossible? Why have researchers found so much wood scraps, and cut lumber up on Mt. Arrarat, which is the place where the ark came to rest in the bible. Along with fossils of ocean animals on that and other mountains in that area. That alone suggests the facts for a global flood. And nothing could have survived that kind of flood, unless it were in a safe place, which would be a boat. I'm sure that when ocean liners were first built, people were of the notion that no one could build a boat big enough to comfortably hold thousands of people and hundreds, if not thousands of tons of cargo. And 40 days isn't really that long, it is just 10 days more than a month.[/quote]

Please read the epic of gilgamesh. If your going to take the story of noah's ark literally, please also believe in sumerian mythology.

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WHat about the one where the guy was swallowed by a whale? LOLZORZ.

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Alright, alright you damn kids. Here is my opinion...

I was raised Catholic and I suppose you could say I'm practicing. Now, forget your stereotypes (all of them, really, but for this instnance, your ones on Catholics). No, I'm not a right wing fanatic, I don't think non-Christians are going to Hell, and I don't find small children attractive. If everybody could just forget what the media tells them, they might find out that that is true for most of us.

My opinion on this topic? I fully believe in the use of free speech but this is an abuse. I believe in the freedom to promote ones own belief, but not at the expense of anothers. And I wonder, had they used the Koran or the Tora(h) (I forgot if there was an "h" in there or not), would the response had been so "Kick ass, Dude!"? I don't think so. I think they would have been considered close-minded and, I guess, racist. Islam and Judaism are a type of race, I think.

Somehow the topic got on to Noah and the Ark. My opinion on that is that it was either a story meant to promote a moral or it actually happenned only on a much smaller scale. Think of it this way. Back then, people didn't reall travel far from home. Noah's valley was all the world he knew and the animals that lived there were all the animlas he knew. If his valley flooded, that was all the world he knew. And how many different species of terrestial animals could there possibly be in one valley? Probably not much. Once you think of it that way, I think both sides can agree on it.

And just because I've seen this so many times on these boards, I have to say this. DON'T ACT LIKE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T DETECT YOU'RE LAME ATTEMPT AT SARCASM! Sarcasm in print is hard to detect so get off your high horse you narcissistic jackass!

Thanks.

Yeah, and there's a nifty little "rolleyes" face if you click "Go Advanced." Those little smileys and faces are helpful in conveying thoughts well.

I don't know how this topic went off on a Noah's Flood tangent, but the "literalist" believes that the entire world was flooded, but it's not the details that are important to me. It's the picture of God's judgement, and his salvation in a story ... true or not, the greater picture is there. There's no reason for us to get all bent outta shape over the validity of it.

The same thing could be said about Abraham, who is most often referred to as a person. Well, if you're being super-technical about it, Abraham could have been an entire culture. It would be like calling the states "Lady Liberty" when telling a history of the U.S. We miss the point when we get that involved.

Bringing us back to the original topic...
[QUOTE=Bruns]And I wonder, had they used the Koran or the Tora(h) (I forgot if there was an "h" in there or not), would the response had been so "Kick ass, Dude!"? I don't think so. I think they would have been considered close-minded ... [/QUOTE]
You are absolutely correct on that point. I'm so glad someone said that.

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