The Gay Marriage Thread

[GAmFanboy]

Do You believe that Gay Marriage should be legal in the US.



If this Forum is Inapropriate, It can be locked.

[epijlh]

I say no. Marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN. Sorry, but that is just the way it goes. Now civil unions, I'm all for it and everyone deserves to be happy, but I don't believe to members of the same sex should be in "marriage."

[Chris L]

Eh, this topic is so controversial it'll bound to get flamey and will eventually be closed...but my 2 cents:

About the California ruling: It's not about religion, or having it being taught in schools. It's the reversal of a basic civil liberty. It really is not that much different when interracial marriage was unacceptable by society and was banned.

I can't believe it even has to be a "thing" that has to be passed or considered. It's ridiculous. Separation of church and state...what happened to that? No government should impose a religious view on civil liberties and rights. The whole "God said marriage should be between a man and a woman" falls into the religious sector, it should not be involved with the state and whether or not it recognizes marriage.

20 years from now, our children and their children will read about this in our history books as something shameful in our nation's history. Whoever said history repeats itself had it right.

[James]

I don't see why anyone would vote no. You don't have to "agree" with it.. But why would you wanna take it AWAY from someone? ..I can be a vegetarian but I don't have to hate people who eat hamburgers nor do I think they should be illegal. Same can be said for things like gay marriage.

[Disney2Gardens]

'"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

That is the answer from God, the only answer that matters. Some people want the freedom to sin. When you take away that freedom and confront them with there sin, they get angry. Well one day the Bill will come due, like it or not.

[James]

Church and State are separate, thanks.

[tntornadox]

It's sad, on the perch of making history by electing the first African American to the highest office on Earth, such blatant discrimination still occurs in the nation referred to as 'the best last hope on Earth'...

Noone has the right to deny anyone else anything, regardless of their views on the subject. Church and State are seperate, and "All" men are created equal under the constitution...

Now, if some political figure had the gonads to stand up and say it aloud...

[rjholla2003]

Whoooooooo Caaaaaaressss!
If you're comfortable with your own sexuality, comfortable in the strength of your relationship, and feel you know what love is for you, then who cares about others! A gay person dating another gay person doesn't turn me gay. A gay person marrying another gay person doesn't affect my relationship with my girlfriend in any way at all. What gay people do in their bedroom doesn't affect the *activities* in my own.

In the end, a sin is a sin is a sin. Unless your name is Jesus Christ, I'm pretty sure you're a sinner. So, to sum it up: Who cares!

Besides, the only threat to the "sanctity of marriage" is divorce.

[apsterling]

I agree with the sentiment that we should stand up for their rights. Let's take away your right to ride rollercoasters because we disagree with the thrill you get.

In the end, religion says to leave the judgement to God, and you're only condemning yourself if you condemn them, so it's a dual edged blade.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Disney2Gardens

'"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

That is the answer from God, the only answer that matters. Some people want the freedom to sin. When you take away that freedom and confront them with there sin, they get angry. Well one day the Bill will come due, like it or not.

That's cute. If you're a Christian. Just a little 411...not everybody has the same religious views as you.

Which I repeat again, separation of church and state. Go practice whatever religion you feel like. However, don't enforce it on those that don't have the same viewpoints as you in a manner in which civil liberties that our country was founded on are violated.

[TexasTornadoRules]

Originally Posted by Disney2Gardens

'"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

That is the answer from God, the only answer that matters. Some people want the freedom to sin. When you take away that freedom and confront them with there sin, they get angry. Well one day the Bill will come due, like it or not.

2 things:

1. A Bible passage should have no bearing on the laws of man.
2. Don't use Leviticus to make arguments, it makes you look like a fool.

[Carowinds 73-03]

I'm all for it.

This has always been a touchy subject for me as a Out & Proud Gay American so to save everyone the time of reading a long story i could write in about 10 post, rjholla2003 pretty much sums up the short version of my story and everything i would have typed has already been said in most of the post.

So as said before "Who Cares".

I also love that video Chris L posted. A friend sent me thast video on Myspace yesterday. Everyone should watch that.

[Brian F]

Well, if someone is gay, it's fine with me. I personally don't care, other than to be happy that they have found happiness. I've yet to find a gay person who judges me because I'm straight, the least I can do is to return the courtesy.

And I'm a Christian, too. By the way, despite what many would like, the first amendment applies to Christians, too. Sorry about that one.

If homosexuality is a sin, that's between the homosexual and God. I've got my own sin to worry about, thanks. I'll worry about the mote in your eye after I get the beam out of my own.

As far as the California thing goes, California has a provision for civil union (it may be called something else, but it provides legal standing for partners in a gay relationship.) That is essential. To not offer that is inhumane.

But, let's talk about prop 8, shall we. The issue was put to a vote. a vote of THE PEOPLE. It was voted down. This is what we call DEMOCRACY. You know, the "will of the people?" We heard SO much about that after the 2000 presidential election, but somehow we're NOT hearing much about it with prop 8. Instead, we have protesters fighting with police because they want an oligarchy.

The proper thing to do here is to reintroduce the proposition at the next election, or the next time the law allows. Violence and slander don't do much to forward your opinion.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Disney2Gardens

'"Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

That is the answer from God, the only answer that matters. Some people want the freedom to sin. When you take away that freedom and confront them with there sin, they get angry. Well one day the Bill will come due, like it or not.

Leviticus 11:9-12...

"Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams, you may eat any that have fins and scales. But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you."

If you eat shrimp, shellfish, catfish, etc., you're screwed along with the Gays according to God. There's also a whole bunch of other stuff in Leviticus (and Deuteronomy) that is largely ignored by Christians. Try again.

Personally... I'm indifferent about it. The plusses is that it would help better promote stable long-term relationships among GLBTs (which, compared to heterosexual relationships, is less). On the flip side, there have been some issues that have come up in terms of divorce of gay couples, custody issues, handling of legal and social family issues (such as health benefits and so forth), and so forth. Legally, I think a lot needs to be resolved because of that. Spiritually, many of the major religions (not just Christianity) are pretty clear about it (just not Leviticus).

Anyway, I don't make it a point to judge others because of that. It's God's will, and there are some things that we cannot do, and by intruding on other's personal lives by telling them what they shouldn't do in the bedroom or who they can have a relationship with, we are actually breaking what God wishes, despite supposed good intentions. If He feels that it's wrong, it'll be taken care of in due time. If not, then we're the ones that are wrong.

God's ultimate commandment is to Love God with your all, and with that, to love your neighbor as yourself (from Matthew 22:35-40). Remember that.

[Kyle L]

I'm somewhat against Gay Marriage, although I do not really care enough to make a long, drawn out post about it. It's what I believe, others believe differently, I respect that.

What I DON'T respect AT ALL is how all of a sudden since Prop 8 (Which Bans Same Sex Marriage in CA) was passed, those who advocate same sex marriage are labeling those who voted yes as discriminatory, hatred, ignorance etc. I can't stand that at all...not everyone who voted Yes on 8 hates gay people or is intolerant of them. It's so bad that an elderly woman was beat up for having a Yes on 8 Poster in front of her house.

I'll respect your opinion if you respect mine, I wont if you cram your bull**** claims down my throat of how people are intolerant, hate filled or ignorant because of the way they feel on marriage.

Rant Over.

[GAmFanboy]

I've got something that Wanda Sykes said and It Applies with Almost Everything.

"If you don't believe in Gay Marriage, than Don't be Gay and Mind Your Own Business!!!"

[Disney2Gardens]

Originally Posted by TexasTornadoRules

2 things:

1. A Bible passage should have no bearing on the laws of man.
2. Don't use Leviticus to make arguments, it makes you look like a fool.

1. The United States was founded on Bible passages and Christian values.
2.1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

There is nowhere in the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any other document that states separation of church and state. That lie was conceived by the liberal left. If it is not true I challenge anyone to prove me wrong by quoting such document.

[Chris L]

^ Did you attend the University of the Terminally Ignorant?

The United States WAS NOT founded on Bible passages and Christian values.

It was founded by pilgrims that escaped RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION in Europe. The right to practice whatever religion they wanted, or no religion for that matter if they chose to do so.

America was founded on freedom, civil rights, equality for all.

There is nowhere in the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any other document that states separation of church and state. That lie was conceived by the liberal left. If it is not true I challenge anyone to prove me wrong by quoting such document.

You really cannot be serious.

Separation of church and state in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'll respect your opinion if you respect mine, I wont if you cram your bull**** claims down my throat of how people are intolerant, hate filled or ignorant because of the way they feel on marriage.

Haha. What a double edged sword you're wielding there. You say you're having "claims" shoved down your throat by Pro-gay marriage advocates? What about those on your side of the issue that are shoving their reasons down the throats of homosexuals to deny them a civil liberties?

[89magnumxl200]

Originally Posted by Disney2Gardens

1. The United States was founded on Bible passages and Christian values.
2.1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

There is nowhere in the United States Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any other document that states separation of church and state. That lie was conceived by the liberal left. If it is not true I challenge anyone to prove me wrong by quoting such document.

Wow you're ignorant. The First Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". Sure, it doesn't say the exact phrase "Separation of church and state", but it means the same thing. And several of the founding fathers stated that the government shall not impose any religion upon the populous.

[Steven]

Uh... nowhere in the Constitution does it mention God. Also, most of the laws were also laws that can also be found in other religious texts, including the Quran. "In God We Trust" did not become an official motto until 1956 (though it did appear on money as early as 1864).

Also, to clarify things... the 1st Amendment guarantees the freedom of religion. That means that an individual can worship and hold religious beliefs on their own, without having to deal with state-sponsored religion (which the Constitution specifically prohibits). What you say amounts to State-sponsored religion (Christianity as a whole).

Additionally, Article 6 of the US Constitution holds that no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust.

Sources: The US Constitution itself, Basic knowledge of the Quran in learning other religions so to better understand my Christian faith.

Originally Posted by Chris L

It was founded by pilgrims that escaped RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION in Europe. The right to practice whatever religion they wanted, or no religion for that matter if they chose to do so.

Pilgrims were wanting to escape the political chaos in their home country (England), moving to the Netherlands, and then eventually to America... not wanting to deal with the Church of England. Contrary to popular belief, they weren't the first settlement. Jamestown, VA holds that honor (and the reasons were a lot more political... mostly because England wanted to be the first to settle in this "New World" over other countries).

Seriously, you have to leave things to God... If you don't like gay marriage... that's fine. It's not a natural idea to us, but that is not something I am in control of. We have bigger problems to fry, like trying avoid the Great Depression Part II.

[Chris L]

Haha thanks for clarifying Steven. Anyway, my point being was that this country wasn't founded on "the Bible and Christian values."

[apsterling]

To the gays though, Steven, 1929 in Color is less important than their rights. And I don't blame them for that.

[Brian F]

Originally Posted by Chris L

Haha. What a double edged sword you're wielding there. You say you're having "claims" shoved down your throat by Pro-gay marriage advocates? What about those on your side of the issue that are shoving their reasons down the throats of homosexuals to deny them a civil liberties?

And what about those who beat up an old lady for supporting prop 8? Those who want the majority decision overturned because it wasn't what they want? Both sides make me want to puke.

[TexasTornadoRules]

Originally Posted by Disney2Gardens

2.1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.

Did you just google "fool Bible" or something to come up with that? It's out of context and irrelevant.

[imakecoasters]

I don't get it. "In god we trust" is found on money, and all over things in the US government. Don't presidents have to place a hand on the bible and promise stuff? I just remember that from my history book, so don't kill me if I'm mistaken.

EDIT- I wiki'd this, :P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of..._United_States

Although, I do realize we have the 1st amendment which means these fights don't really matter, because people can believe what they want here in the US. So that's good.

-IMC-

[apsterling]

It's all flawed in general. I could pull my whole cynic thing but y'know that it'd be uncalled for.

In general, we gave rights to other races, we gave them to women, we may as well give them to gays. Because if we don't what was it all for?

[Steven]

Regarding In God We Trust... I noted it in a previous post... but it was more of a recent thing that it became officially sanctioned. We're the only country in the entire world that puts it on money.

We've never been able to handle major change and specific groups... 1860's and again in the 1960's: Blacks, slavery, and civil rights. Early 1900's: Women's suffrage. 1940's (WWII): Japanese-Americans being persecuted because of their ancestry (all because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor), and so forth.

[Chris L]

Originally Posted by Brian F

And what about those who beat up an old lady for supporting prop 8? Those who want the majority decision overturned because it wasn't what they want? Both sides make me want to puke.

Right...because the one perpetrator that beat up an old lady reflects all the No-On-8 supporters as a group.

Please.

[Ryan F]

I have nothing against gay marriages, if they want to be with someone they love in marriage then nobody should say they shouldn't be able to.
Same goes for gay couples that want to adopt children; I really don't see anything wrong with that. Gay parents does not mean a gay child. Plus, it's not like they're not going to be able to provide for their adopted children; they have to go through the same screening process as anyone else that wants to adopt.

Jon Stewart had some good points when he covered this on his show after the election. One being about how the church of Mormons were heavy supports of Prop 8 because they believe in "traditional" marriage. "Traditional" coming from a religion known for having polygamous marriages (I know only part of the church does it, but still).

If people want a "traditional christian" marriage, they might as well make divorce illegal too. Make the only way to get out of a marriage through annulment.

[Brian F]

^ And the ones trying to overturn the decision of the majority of the people... and the ones getting in violent conflicts with the police during protests... and the ones slandering religious leaders for thinking they have first amendment rights, too...

Yeah, and the one that beat up the old lady, too.

Look back to my first post in this thread. I outlined exactly the way to go forward in bringing about the change you desire with dignity.