Carowinds is truly successful now, last year, and the year before- with slight attendance drops... and the GP hasn't ridden on anything "new" since Borg.

Staff edit:
ok it is time for some news/ new rumors... we've been going around in circles for a while now lol

Please don't double-post.

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"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

That example proves that if we did get a hyper the GP could not wait nine years. To the GP, the last big new thing was Nighthawk in 2004, not Top Gun. That's only 5 years as of now, not 9-12. A decline in attendance does not prove success...

Anyways, i'd be cool with a Piraten-like hyper. It probably delivers great ejector airtime! Too bad Carowinds won't get a 4D, they are awesome!

Carowinds hasn't been truly successful since at least the Paramount era- (Cedar Fair hasn't done much for the park beyond taking what little identity it had (Paramount) away from it) even then it wasn't living up to its potential. You would probably have to go back even farther to witness when the park was flourishing, not long after opening when it still had its theming and soul intact.

What was originally supposed to have been the East Coast Disneyland is now a park without an image of its own- of course, having Cedar Fair for a parent dosen't help either in that department.

I'll agree with that. I do kinda wish that Carowinds would go back to what it was when my parents took me for the first time in the 80's. Too bad that will never happen so i'll take what i can get.

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2009 Carolina Cobra Crew
Go Panthers! 4-6: Week 12 @ New York Jets

#6 North Carolina Tarheels 4-1

What's wrong with having Cedar Fair as a parent?At least it's not a Six Flags,then it would have no personal identity.

agreed... Six Flags... talk about a real travesty...

I just don't understand the negative sentiment from many of the Carowinds enthusiasts against Cedar Fair... it has only been a couple of years yet so many people have so many nasty things to say about CF... kind of UN-fair if you ask me..

Let's at least give them the benefit of the doubt, and who knows, Cedar Fair might actually deliver. I'm optimistic.

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"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

I'm optimistic as well.Optimism is key in amusement parks.Cedar Fair is a great company that has just been flamed for their closure of Geauga Lake.What i say is for people to get over it.really,it's been over a year since the closure decision and people still won't get over it.If Cedar Fair kept running as an amusement park and a water park,it probably wouldn't be open at all.As a water park or an amusement park.People just have to face the facts that Six Flags destroyed the park.

Umm....When it was Six Flags Worlds of Adventure it had amazing attendance. Six Flags put that park on the map. However, Six Flags expanded too quickly and couldn't catch up with the funds. If Six Flags would have waited it out and not sold it to Cedar Fair they would probably get more attendance than Cedar Point. Actually, it would be stomping Cedar Point in attendance for the 08 season. Cedar Fair destroyed that park by not doing anything and letting it rot throughout their ownership. I mean i like Cedar Fair and am not flaming them, but they were the cause of Geauga's failure.

Saying Six Flags does not have an identity is false. How many people know what Cedar Fair is? Not many. How many people know what Six Flags is? A lot! Six Flags has Looney Tunes, which is extremely popular. Cedar Fair has peanuts, which kids are lucky if they even know what they are these days. Yes, we would know what they are but Peanuts is long gone.

Yes, Six Flags went with a period of horrible park maintenance and upkeep, but that is changing.

I like both companies, but saying Six Flags does not have an identity is false.

CF does NOT have a multi ride contract with B&M,the CW & KI hypers were planned in advance & decided upon separately & CF doesn't tend to clone their rides.Park chains (other than SFI) don't tend to sign multi coaster contracts due to changing variables such as the economy,which if you havn't noticed has been in the crapper lately.

Carowinds will not be seeing a hyper in 2010 thanks in part to the boomerang they're installing in 09 so you can just dream on about that....as is there's no certainty yet about KD even getting a hyper in 2010,which is why it's all a bunch of rumors at this point in time & hasn't been confirmed in any way.

Behemoth and Diamondback are two very similar coasters- I said nothing about cloned coasters. All evidence I have seen points towards a multi year deal- two very similar coasters in two consecutive years. Prove your statement with something based on fact, not sentiment.


Prove it. Carowinds , along with other parks, have gone through many instances where two coasters are built in consecutive years.

All evidence is pointing towards something for 2010. The flume is going to be taken down, as has been mentioned by several different sources.

All evidence I see is going against your sentiment... and until you can back your claims with proof, that will continue.


KD just got a large B&M... of all parks, why in the world would KD be the one to receive a coaster in 2010???
Carowinds last addition was Borg in 2004. Carowinds last major investment was Top Gun in 1999.

Again, all I'm seeing is negative sentiment... and no proof... show me proof.

If anything major was to be built at Carowinds, it would be built in the place of the log flume.

I have heard two respectable sources mention that the flume is being taken down, and that the picnic area next to the flume is also going to be taken down.

Nobody here has anything but rumors to make their claims- all the rumors I have seen are pointing to the same thing- something is going to take the place of the flume in the coming years- until I see anything to the contrary, I will continue to go along with that.

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"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

Rumors are hearsay statements, not evidence. There are no leaked documents that even suggest the removal of the flume. So telling him to prove it, when you have no proof is not a smart claim.

Wait, didn't Kings Island get Firehawk, then Diamondback the year after? Yes. So what would be the difference if KD got a hyper two years after Dominator?

By now it should be obvious that Dick does not like Carowinds. Carowinds hasn't received anything worth while. We got a second wave pool, when we could have gotten good waterslides. We got our restored swinging ship and swings. Now, we are getting a used boomerang, while other Cedar Fair parks are recieving the better end of the deal. Carowinds is the southern Michigan's Adventure.

As much as I love Carowinds and would want it to get an excellent NEW coaster, it just won't happen with Cedar Fair. Unless Dick personally reads this to prove me wrong.

All anyone has (as far as any of us know) are rumors.

It has been two years. In that time, the park has seen the return of refurbished Frenzoid, the park has recieved an additional flat from GL, Thunder Road has been given a great deal of TLC from GCI (which is still underway) and the water park has been expanded. In the offseason this year, Hurler will be given TLC, and Carolina Cobra will be built in the place of FSS.

How exactly is that not fair? How do you know that CF "hates" this park???

Dick Kinzel has always spoken well of Carowinds, and several of the park's needs have been met already.

How on Earth do you, of all people, know that Carowinds will never get a brand new coaster or other major improvement?

In only two years, you are already writing off CF as unfair to Carowinds??

Why don't you at least give CF the chance do do some real good before you denounce them??

I wonder how much crap you will be saying when the park does see something major in the coming years.

IMO, that sentiment is premature and unfounded.

In today's economic climate, with the theme park industry hurting, you aren't going to see new metal every year. I am not giving excuses for CF, but I am being realistic.

Sorry, but I just don't understand where this sentiment is coming from... I am looking forward to what CF has to bring to the park optimistically, and I see no cause for such a negative attitude from someone who has no idea what CF has in store for the park.

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"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

Ok, I am not saying "crap" about Cedar Fair. Yes, that probably came out wrong, but I already stated that I like Cedar Fair. I have enjoyed every park of theirs. I just don't think Cedar Fair sees Carowinds as a potential thriving park. I never denounced the company of any sort. I am also not denouncing Carowinds. For the two years Cedar Fair has owned Carowinds, they have shown no sign of actually liking with the park (with the exception of retracking Thunder Road). All other previously owned Paramount Parks are receiving actual worth while improvements.

I never said Carowinds should receive metal every year. To be honest, I am against the "coaster every other year" technique. I would rather have a worth while one four to five years.

I am all with you on the HYPER(!), but it might not happen.

I'm extremely critical of Carowinds, their management, and Cedar Fair's (and Paramount's) attitude towards Carowinds, but so that I don't sound overly negative I'll make this as short as possible. In my opinion, anything Carowinds does correctly is masked by something done poorly and ignorantly. For instance, our 3.5M second wavepool could’ve been a 1M dollar ProSlide Cannon Bowl, which could’ve been better marketed, and unarguably better received by the GP. I also have 0% hope for Carowinds’ future, and believe that we will only see more second and third class worthless rides. Though, I hope I am wrong. Here are some reasons:

The flat ride from GL was that worthless swing set. In my opinion, it can be universally agreed that Zierer Wave Swingers provide an incredibly better ride and look better. We get this worthless Chance Yo-Yo that is built to run at a traveling fair. It looks terrible, the ride is terrible, everything about it is terrible and I sincerely hope the park didn't waste anymore than $100,000 to transport and reassemble. Not to mention, Carowinds HAD a Zierer Wave Swinger! But Parasucks took it away. So why do we, a 1.5M people per year park, get such a a pathetic, worthless, downgrade?! Thunder Road, excellent idea to retrack and renovate, but the plan was executed in the most atrocious way. It takes LESS time to actually build a brand new woodie than it did for Carowinds to simply retrack, and refurbish Thunder Road. They closed it before the season ended in 2007 (could’ve been a safety issue, so I won’t really criticize that), but there is absolutely no excuse for it to have taken into June (or July, I forget) for them to have it reopened. I’m sure we can expect the same for Hurler. FSS looked like a run-down old ride as it was, and was a mechanical nightmare to run so I don’t really oppose its removal. However, I don’t possibly see how anyone could be excited for a Boomerang, known for their roughness, mechanical unreliability, and even stalling in the cobra roll. They’re getting new trains, they actually are doing something right. But, as I said before, this is masked by the incompetent management taking no initiative to advertise the ride (it’s not even the first thing you see on the homepage). I’m not in the Charlotte area, but I’m close enough and under a correct marketing plan, I should be hearing advertisements. I would’ve personally rather had another year without an expansion rather than get yet another worthless Vekoma, but that’s me. Even the ghetto of Great America was planned to get something of a higher caliber.

I absolutely agree that CF is unfair to Carowinds. But not only Carowinds, Cedar Fair, spearheaded by The Dicktator, is unusually biased to their northern properties (GL being the only exception). Dorney gets quite a bit more than their fair share (when looking at the full chain, and Dorney’s attendance), Kings Island gets a two coasters in two years (while Diamondback *may* have been planned by Paramount, Firehawk couldn’t have been since it was from GL), and we all know Cedar Point’s budget. It isn’t about attendance, because looking at it that way Knott’s should be a Cedar Point, and the last time I checked (for the 2006 year) I believe Knotts’ attendance was under Cedar Point’s. A park in LA (near it), beaten by a park in the middle-of-no-where Ohio? Strange…

Which needs? Yes, he’s spoken highly of Carowinds, but he’s done essentially nothing to help. Carowinds hasn’t spent any money (by money I mean a capital investment) in ELEVEN years (since Top Gun). Our need is a long list of thrill rides and a new anchor attraction.

Currently, the amusement industry is not hurting. That’s not to say that it won’t though. Six Flags reports a 5% increase in revenue for Q3 and Q2, while Cedar Fair reports increased revenue in Q2 (less operating days in Q3 led to lowered revenue). Both chains also reported increased attendance for both quarters (note: Six Flags' 8% attendance drop in Q2 was not actually a drop, the timing of Easter this year caused that. The 8% lost was made up for in Q1 since Easter fell then instead, year-in-total, it did not effect attendance in a negative way). Hard Rock Park is hurting, but they were mismanaged. No park should see a brand new massive addition every year, as we see where that got Six Flags. But, seriously, eleven years since a real investment is getting ridiculous.

In all, I think Paramount messed Carowinds up, but the Dicktator is just continuing that legacy. The original managements (Taft namely) ran, and treated, Carowinds the right way. Just look at the timeline of ride additions.

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I'm still waiting to see what CF has in store with Carowinds. I personally think we're still on the old Paramount 5 year plan. But then again CF had put a stop to some of those plans such as FOF, Winterfest & The Nick Parade.

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2009 Carolina Cobra Crew
Go Panthers! 4-6: Week 12 @ New York Jets

#6 North Carolina Tarheels 4-1

Re: Cedar Fair's lack of identity.

After the announcement of Six Flags Dubailand, many questioned if Cedar Fair would be next.

Absolutely not.

Here is why- Six Flags is a relevant brand to a great majority of the population of at least the United States, indeed, due to its international parks and acclaim for several of their domestic parks, even international communities has heard of them. Six Flags has a great library of characters behind them which CF simply does not. Now, if Cedar Fair buys the Nick rights from Viacom, I would be willing to call it a toss up, but I don't see this happening- as it would require spending money on something other rides, which we know is slim pickings with The Dicktator in power.

Six Flags is still recovering from Kieran Burke's lack of leadership and fiscal responsibility- however, I think in the long term, their prospects are better than that of Cedar Fair simply because they have a brand identity and the characters and names to back it up... unlike CF which has a flag.

-Simply my opinion.

^ I totally agree with about everything you said there.

And Coasterman I agree with you as well. Of course you and I have our own opinion of certain members of CF, but I'll keep that for the IM world. lol

Carowinds should be near the top of Cedar Fair's list of growth parks. Charlotte is now in the top 20 cities in the US and I think will make top 15 soon as well. Until the economic downturn, Charlotte was one of the fastest growing regions in the country. Charlotte was actually the last city to go into the red when it came to home prices/values.

Don't take my comments to be bias. I know Charlotte isn't Atlanta, or DC or any other huge metro. I'm just saying based on the growth here, it would make sense to invest here as well.

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Intimidator Coming in 2010 to Carowinds!

With your logic Wes, shouldn't CF turn focus to CGA? CGA is located just outside of San Jose, and about 30 minutes south of San Francisco, which are both larger cities than Charlotte, and combined, one of the largest possible population CF can take from.

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Thornton to Heatley all day, every day.

Very true. You would think they would do that as well.

They do have the landlocked problem for that park, and I can't see them paying the money to relocate.

If they do put the GCI in though, that would be their first big investment in a while.

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Intimidator Coming in 2010 to Carowinds!

Ummm...sorry but, the population of a city does not matter. You are correct in the fact that it is #19 (or in the top 20) but it’s not the city population that counts. E.G. Sandusky is not even in the top 200 largest cities, but because it’s a tourist destination, that’s way it is a good place for a park. Charlotte may be in the top 20 largest cities but it’s not in the top 25 largest metro areas. If you look at other parks, they have a large area around them with large population numbers. (WOF. Kansas City, Wichita, st. Louis 18th largest metro) (CP in a 100 MI. radius has Detroit, Columbus, and Cleveland.) And I'm sorry to say that Carowinds does not have many large cities around it. and I'm not being byist because I'm not even comparing my home city.
but instead of saying who gets the most money lets talk about what COULD BE NEW FOR 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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1st ride on Renegade for the 2009 season.

What kind of Roller coaster are you?

City population would be a huge factor to just almost any other chain... CF's bias show through blatantly...

what I had tried to say is here is a picture
TheToader14 - thrillnetwork
the circles represent cites. smaller ones for a smaller city and bigger ones for bigger cities
you get more population base when you have a lot of smaller cities the one big one.

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1st ride on Renegade for the 2009 season.

What kind of Roller coaster are you?

Charlotte has a huge metro area, and Carowinds represents the only major park left in the Carolinas, the point is, it SHOULD be booming, but it's not...

^ Exactly my point.

Cedar Point does so well because it is 1 hour from Cleveland, 3 hours from Pittsburgh/ 3 hours from Cinci and only a few hours from Michigan.

It is a resort, but most people drive to it and only drive several hours at most to get there.

If you ask most people on the midway at Cedar Point, they are going to say they are from MI, OH or PA. It's basically the same metro principle that they draw from.

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Intimidator Coming in 2010 to Carowinds!

It's time for Carowinds to shine. Look at Charlotte - the Interstate Beltway is almost complete there. Mega people that should eat the place up.

Wes, are they working on that last northeast gap of the road?

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Thrillnetwork Moderator - Sophomore Original sn: CHILLERLC1
2008 & 2009 TN Coaster Draft Champion
You knew I wanted the other repeat too

The link between I-85 and I-77 on the west side of Charlotte is about done.

But Raleigh isn't giving us the money to finish the link between I-77 and I-85 for like another 5 or 10 years (see the red circle).

Raleigh is building their 2nd outerbelt, and we can't even get our 1st one done!

Attached Thumbnails

 

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Intimidator Coming in 2010 to Carowinds!

All in due time. Carowinds will have it's moment to shine in the coming years.

I also did find out today that Bart Kinzel is infact Carowinds new GM. He took over about a week ago. Apparently John had a death in the family about 3 weeks ago and never returned.

Hope everything is ok with John. He was a nice guy.

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2009 Carolina Cobra Crew
Go Panthers! 4-6: Week 12 @ New York Jets

#6 North Carolina Tarheels 4-1

One reason why it may not happen(at this time) is due to the economy(thank you Bush) & this is why park chains tend to shy away from multi ride deals with manufacturers because the CEO's simply don't know where the economy is going to be when it comes time to comission the individual projects.

Foghorn Leghorn:Take a look at HRP,the park has only been around for ONE,just one season & is now bankrupt & as far as I can tell won't open in 09 unless a new buyer can be found.HRP isn't some run down rebranded SF park like GL was....it is a park that was built from the ground up by a major player in the industry & it failed due to the poor economy.

CF has positive plans for Carowinds I'm sure but at least in the near future a hyper probably isn't part of that plan.The reason why parks such as KD,KI & CWL tend to get the bigger installations more frequently is because these three are the big money makers of the former paramount chain while Carowinds & CGA make substantially less & have smaller markets to draw from.Not every park in the chain is going to get the "CP" treatment of coaster after coaster every year or two,nor should they IMO.SF has tried the "let's put a new coaster in the park every other year" approach & it has backfired for them & CF doesn't plan to make that same mistake.

Think about this. The people running CF and Carowinds are not just monkeys dressed up in suites. I'm sure they would like All of there parks to shine. There not just saying "oh, I don't like carowinds" or "I don't like this park that park only that park do I like" when the time comes for your "Hyper" it will come. Even at Valleyfair we could be at risk of not getting our B&M because of the economy. But if I had the choice I would rather get a small flat or nothing, then to have the park be in GL state. (Not state as in Ohio)
If I where you I would not even complain that you get "used" coasters because at least you have more coasters then if you didn't. If you want to say who gets more roller coasters? Then why is Valleyfair not as big as it is? Its one of the flagship parks. Why is WOF not even bigger? It’s been apart of CF for a long time, since 1995.
Just stop thinking you should be the next major park of CF, it is very annoying. Yeah I would like to have Valleyfair bigger too. It may happen or it may not, same as Carowinds. You can dream but just stop complaining, and thinking your better then everyone else. I'm sorry if I'm sounding rude, I'm not trying to be.

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1st ride on Renegade for the 2009 season.

What kind of Roller coaster are you?

It's not as much as who gets more, but the quality of what they get. Valleyfair's most recent additions of Steel Venom and Renegade, while small, were of extremely high quality, as were WOF's. It's bluntly obvious, and should be even more obvious to Dick, that Carowinds has worthless rides as it is (save for Top Gun). Even the GP notice this, which should be an absolute embarrassment to the incompetent management. Why does he want to add more worthless rides?

Dick adds only high end rides to literally all the rest of the CF chain except the Forgotten Adventure (MiA). So why doesn't he treat Carowinds like he does the rest of the chain? Carowinds isn't bound to be a super-park any time soon if ever (it would require hundreds of millions of dollars just to get it in super-park shape infrastructure wise), but surely we should be treated as well as he treats Dorney, who's attendance is significantly under ours. We're not asking to be CFs next super-park, we just want what is due to Carowinds. We've waited eleven years for a real coaster, and since 1993 to even have a management that understands quality, I think it's our turn for a share of the capital expenditures.

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