Cedar Point mystery land clearing

violakat03 · #1 03-23-2009, 10:12 AM

Can't believe no one's posted about this yet in here.

Some aerial photos taken recently of Cedar Point show some intriguing cleared land on Millennium Island. Then there was that odd disappearing blog post about "we're doing something over there" that was removed very shortly after being posted, never to be seen again (except in the posts on screamscape, TN and many other enthusiast sites, of course).

So, what does everyone make of it all? The current guess over at KICentral is that it's going to be a small wooden twister to maintain CP's coaster title after SFMM builds their next planned coaster. My personal guess is that it will be something more along the lines of a junior wooden coaster like Fairly Odd Coaster, accessed from the kid's area by a bridge. It might also just be another water ride.

Thoughts?

Here are some pictures of the land clearing:
Cedar Point Aerial on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cedar Point Aerial on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

**Leo C** · #2 03-23-2009, 08:48 PM

I was thinking of a woodie coaster, perhaps a model of what Dorney could get. It would have to bridge over the water pretty much. It's how I'd envision a new Dorney one.

Woodie4-07 · #3 03-23-2009, 09:06 PM

I think CP fanboys will rejoice in 5,4,3,2,1,
Oh wait, this was last week?
I gotta keep track of time more often.
In all honesty I doubt it'll be anything more than a whoppin' slab of concrete and a few trash cans.

**Wes** · #4 03-23-2009, 09:46 PM

Looking at that first photo, I don't see anything really going on.

They use the island for that boat ride with the story and such from what I remember in 2006 when Brian F, his wife and I rode it.

I can't see them putting a coaster out there, it's just not enough room, and it would ruin Milly IMO. You'd have this big structure on one side of your line of site when on the island.

cooliocody12 · #5 03-23-2009, 09:53 PM

Looks like a great place for a new coaster IMO and it does look like significant land clearing is going on. Fingers Crossed (YN)

Carowinds 73-03 · #6 03-23-2009, 09:54 PM

I was thinking the same. Is there even room on the island for a coaster? If anything maybe CP is getting another flat ride.

violakat03 · #7 03-23-2009, 10:31 PM

The small amount of space available is why I was thinking a junior coaster. I think they could fit in a compact inverted (a la Runaway Reptar) in that space, or a junior woodie like Fairly Odd Coaster.

I find it impossible to believe that CP would even think about letting SFMM catch their record again, so I would not be at all surprised to see the addition of another coaster. Though it doesn't necessarily have to be there - CP is pretty creative on where they can cram coasters in.

There's also a good possibility of a new flat or an additional water ride there. Maybe even a larger future replacement to SRF.

Carowinds 73-03 · #8 03-24-2009, 03:23 AM

This may have been talked about before but does Cedar Fair really care if SFMM has more coasters then they CP? Has Dick Kinzel officially said he wants more coasters that SFMM?

Not that it's a big deal but i have always wanted to know since everyone talks about the two parks competing.

I do agree with you that it could be used for a small coaster. Maybe have a kiddie area on the island with something like RRReptar and a few small kids rides.

Nickelodeon Island sounds cool.

**Ryan F** · #9 03-24-2009, 03:30 AM

The mid-course breaks and helix of their new B&M hyper (that was supposed to go to Carowinds, but CF decided the money would be better spent on CP) will go on the island.

Duh.

**Wes** · #10 03-24-2009, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violakat03

I find it impossible to believe that CP would even think about letting SFMM catch their record again...

With the economy the way it is, I don't think the coaster wars are going to come back anytime soon IMHO.

Plus SFMM will still be 1 coaster short when Terminator opens. Even if they build a coaster next year (doubt it), then they are still tied.

violakat03 · #11 03-24-2009, 07:25 AM

I doubt the coaster wars will return on the level we saw five to ten years ago. We also are down by one big player in the former wars since CF bought out the Paramount Parks. Cedar Point is and always will be their star park, so you won't see KI and CP fighting for the title anymore - remember that in 1999 they were tied with 13 coasters each, and the addition of Millennium Force gave CP a one coaster lead for the next three years, which Kings Island was never able to catch up with.

That being said, Kinzel said this in a 2000 interview: "We’ll always try to maintain our position as the biggest and best amusement park in the world." While that doesn't word-for-word say "we want to keep the coaster crown" I think it does say that they're interested in trying. It's been 6 years since they've had anything record-breaking, and Maverick is about to celebrate it's second birthday this year. They installed TTD after MF was 3 years old, and Maverick after TTD was 4 years old. I'd say on Maverick's 3rd or 4th birthday, I'd expect a new coaster. In the same interview, Kinzel talks about why they built Millennium Force and that Cedar Point will always be interested in new technologies and new records.

If Six Flags can weather the recession, I fully expect them to begin building at SFMM again. The rumor coaster for 2010-2011 may be a possibility if Six Flags can hold on through this season and we begin to see an economic turnaround. Even with that only being a possibility at this time, CP may be getting a jump on them. Whatever they may be building will open for the 2010 season. It's also possible that they've had whatever they're building planned for enough years that financing is already secured and it's already worked into their budget, so the economy isn't a big player in it's construction.

BTW, here's the link to the Kinzel interview.
IAAPA 2000: Dick Kinzel interview part two - thispagecannotbedisplayed

**Leo C** · #12 03-24-2009, 11:41 PM

If it's a small coaster I'd appreciate an East Coast Mack Family spinner.

Chris L · #13 03-25-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carowinds 73-03

This may have been talked about before but does Cedar Fair really care if SFMM has more coasters then they CP? Has Dick Kinzel officially said he wants more coasters that SFMM?

I don't think Richard Kinzel has been quoted directly, but (I know this was YEARS AGO, but as an example) back when Magic Mountain announced X, Deja Vu, and Goliath Jr. and claimed to have the most amount of roller coasters in a single park, Cedar Point marketing actually countered the guys at Magic Mountain, and also falsified Magic Mountain's claim via the media.

There was a pretty lengthy article where management at Cedar Point were quoted how they do not consider Magic Mountain's Superman attraction a roller coaster. Magic Mountain management retorted that Superman The Escape fits the description of a roller coaster and that it's unique to the country.

Also...I remember when Tatsu opened as Magic Mountain's 17th coaster in 2006, all traces of "America's Rollercoast" and "Roller Coaster Capitol of the World" on Cedar Point's website completely disappeared. Then it all went back up with the debut of Maverick in 2007.

Though the two parks do not compete directly, they are thousands of miles away and draw from different markets, the ability to claim "most roller coasters" is a powerful marketing tool that can be utilized -- both parks saw the advantage of that title at one point (and may still do).

**Leo C** · #14 03-25-2009, 12:23 AM

Is Shapiro really going to pull the trigger and use the "taser" on Cedar Point, adding a coaster for 2011? Maybe in this day and age it's just bluffing.

The Toader · #15 03-25-2009, 01:01 AM

I'm sure CP will have something up their sleeve at the last minute to give them an extra coaster. Has cp ever not had the most roller coasters? They might let SF have a day or two of fame

Raptor8506 · #16 03-25-2009, 07:21 PM

Has anyone ever thought about a either Dive, floorless, or maby even a flyer. Think about it both can twist,turn, weve in and out of millinium force. I really think that itll be a flyer. I know someone said maby a new childrens area but think about it what did they get for last year. HMMMMMM PLANET SNOOPY. So why would they get another one. And Cedar Point dont need another wooden. And they could do something down the causway, behind disaster transport. Look they thru WT on the beach.

**Leo C** · #17 03-25-2009, 07:38 PM

Why did we have to italicize that? Maybe Cedar Point does need another wooden coaster. CF just got back into the business of new from the ground up wooden investments. We have the wooden classic, 90's mega woodie that's rough. Where's the modern wooden twister?

I hate the drive to Cedar Point (flat tire one time was a bad omen). It was cool when I stayed with family in 2000. I don't like it now cause I do the trip alone and I don't want to stay over. A new ride as such may drag me out there again though.

Chris L · #18 03-25-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Toader

I'm sure CP will have something up their sleeve at the last minute to give them an extra coaster. Has cp ever not had the most roller coasters? They might let SF have a day or two of fame

In 2006, they lost that title to Magic Mountain. The next year with Maverick's introduction, both parks were tied again. Then in 2008, Cedar Point took the title again when Magic Mountain removed two roller coasters.

The Toader · #19 03-25-2009, 10:05 PM

I'm sorry, but why did they remove two roller coasters?

Marcus · #20 03-25-2009, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris L

In 2006, they lost that title to Magic Mountain. The next year with Maverick's introduction, both parks were tied again. Then in 2008, Cedar Point took the title again when Magic Mountain removed two roller coasters.

I've talked this over with the Cedar Point Fanboy Association and we must disagree with this statement. To qualify for the title of Park with Most Roller Coasters, the park must had considered all said roller coasters operational for the majority of the year in question. With Flashback becoming SBNO in 2003, we do not believe Cedar Point has EVER lost the title of Most Roller Coasters to SFMM. The only recent time period this was not true was between January 2002-May 2002, when SFMM did indeed have more operational coasters, however Cedar Point would tie that number with the addition of Wicked Twister that same year.

Edit: There also may have been a slight technicality in April 2003 when both Flashback and Scream! were open at the same time. But it is known that Flashback closed by summer when the nearby waterpark opened, so SFMM may have had the title for a month or so, however this claim is still under investigation and review by CPFA.

**Leo C** · #21 03-25-2009, 10:26 PM

I'm sure glad I don't have a year by year history memorized in my head but Flashback just stood around rotting away. It was one of a kind but had it's comfort issues as detailed many times over the years on this site. The Psyclone was the other removed coaster. It was a built in house piece of junk with a reputation of being despised. I'm glad at least Psyclone was taken out of its misery. Kudos to Shapiro for that. It took a step forward that Cedar Fair hasn't with SOB.

After riding Superman: The Escape I believe it is a coaster. I already felt how it is surpassed by Kingda Ka.

violakat03 · #22 03-26-2009, 06:13 AM

To be curious, do you consider Demon Drop a coaster? I do, but CP doesn't.

cooliocody12 · #23 03-26-2009, 08:14 AM

I'd say its more of a coaster than Superman at SF MM at least its full circuit.

Marcus · #24 03-26-2009, 09:17 AM

Believe me, there is no one on these boards that has more appreciation for what was said by the previous two posters than myself.

However I've been barkin' up that tree for 8 damn years! Excuse the grammar of any familiar posters, we were all fresh out of grade school at the time.

http://www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/...i-say-yes.html

http://www.thrillnetwork.com/boards/...es-debate.html

Through several years of debate, it was determined that everyone has different opinions and that there is no official rules on what is and what is not a coaster. But if you look at any websites, usually it's the park itself has the ultimate say on which rides are considered roller coasters. (or two in the case of credit whoring)

coasterlove · #25 03-26-2009, 09:35 PM

I don't consider Demon Drop a coaster. Cedar Point doesn't. Intamin didn't list it as one. Most other parks that had one never listed it as a coaster either. While it share some similarities of a coaster, it doesn't feel like one to me. A ride like Superman: The Escape just feel likes a coaster.

**Leo C** · #26 03-26-2009, 10:34 PM

I probably said long ago I didn't consider Stuntman's Freefall at SFGADV to be a coaster. It was Demon Drop's brother attraction. I've never walked south or west of the observation tower at CP so I'm never really encountered Demon Drop.

violakat03 · #27 03-27-2009, 12:08 AM

Demon Drop is just inside the front gate, on the right. It's next to the bathrooms and locker rental kiosk. It's hard to avoid if you enter through the front entrance - though very easy to avoid if you use a different entrance, such as Soak City (under Magnum).

Raptor8506 · #28 03-27-2009, 01:09 AM

I have worked at cedar point for 2 yrs 05-06 and worked at demon drop and i believe that it insnt a coaster either. How did we go from construction to demon drop?
We are suposed to talk about the "MYSTERY CONSTRUCTION"

coasterlove · #29 03-27-2009, 12:19 PM

Well, it's hard to have a lot of conversation about "mystery construction" when last I saw, there wasn't any construction yet. A better name would be Mysterious disappearance of trees.

**Ryan F** · #30 03-27-2009, 12:42 PM

^you make a good point. The topic title is fixed.

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