First there were riots at SFMM and SFGAdv and now there was a shooting at SFA, is it just me or do you think that SFI is in some of the worst areas...Or maybe they are just bringing in the wrong crowds. I haven't heard of any stories saying any gang figts or shootouts occuring at parks like Cedar Point or Busch Gardens, so why is it just Six Flags that this stuff is happening to? Is it just that their parks are slap right in the middle of the wrong part of town? I don't know, what I think it could possibly be. What do you think?

Discuss

PKD has had gun fire / stabbings in its parking lot....

I dont think its just a SF thing. Its just most parks are by big citys... SFOG....SFMM...SFGadv...SFA... all are close to big citys.

Well not just big cities, bad cities at that as well. When parks are near cities with high crime rates, you know things about bound to happen. SFGAdv is near New York and Philli who are both in the top five for highest crime rate cities. SFMM is near LA which is #2 on that list. Surprisingly though, Atlanta is way down near the bottom of the list, I would have thought Atlanta would have been up there.

[url]http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004902.html[/url]

The closer a park is to big cities, the more trouble they will have. A lot of the parks that don't have much trouble are surrounded by small towns for many miles or even in the middle of nowhere practically. Another problem from some of the Six Flag parks is that a few of them tried something new by having very low season passes this year. Making it easier, affordable and more enticing to younger people and those who may present a problem. When they have a season pass and can go whenever they want, they're not as concerned with trying to just rides a lot of rides all day. They have time now to cause problems now.

I don't think it's the fault of Six Flags or at least not entirely but rather just the locations of some of their parks. Having your park near big cities of course can help attendance since so many people will be withing an hour or two of the park but it also has it's negatives.

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YOUR HATRED AMUSES ME

I don't agree with that whole "near the big city" theory. Of course, that has SOME play in it, but I don't think it's the main reason. I think it's all about the type of guests the park attracts. Knott's is close to L.A. as well, in Orange County and draws from the same pool of customers, but the type of guests they pull in are more family-oriented with a splash of teenagers every here and there. Magic Mountain tends to draw in more youth rather than family-types with its recent new "badass X-treme Park" attitude and constant slew of new high-thrill rollercoasters year after year - young adults, teenagers, high schoolers and middle schoolers are the typical people patronizing Magic Mountain. Of course, there are little kids too with families, but not in the same style of - let's say Disneyland Park.

And that's really important because people aren't going to pull knives on each other in the queue line in front of their little children at Disneyland - but at Magic Mountain, with the queue jam-packed with teenagers and young adults - there are bound to be gangs, petty fights, and what not that can be avoided if there was a more diverse guest crowd.

^I agree

I have never been to Geauga Lake, which is just outside Cleveland, but know people who have been there, and they said that when it was SF it was bad. Not necissarily rampant with crime, but just that the people were mean and the whole park seemed unfriendly. Now that it is owned by CF I have heard good stories(in comparison) about the park.

I don't think they moved the park farther away from Cleveland, so I'm guessing that it at least partially deals with ownership.

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I think it has to do with location. Location is bad for some of the sf parks, like gadv, mm, and sfa, are all in not so good locations. They are closer to major cities than most of the parks in the country.

Also Security and enforcement of the rules plays a major part of keeping parks orderly. Being a worker at dp, I see that if we didn't enforce the rules, and have an awesome security force, we would not be in an orderly situation.

When teenagers are present, drugs, gangs, etc should be expected. Seeing how many people go to Great America I'm surprised someone hasn't been blasted there.

I don't agree totally with the whole "Six Flags is close to a large city so that's the issue". PKD is located near Richmond and is only an hour or so from DC and they don't have nearly the problems that SFA seems to have.

I think some of it is that "inner city" kids can catch public transportation to SFA and not to PKD.

But at PC you can catch the bus to PC too and we don't have issues like this.

I think it's all in the attitude of the individual park and how security is enforced

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So then,
What about in England. Thorpe Park. There have been an increasing number of 'bad' people(mainly teens) who have been causeing problems. But also just lately in the past few years Thorpe Park has been going for the higher thrill rides attracting teens and young adults ect. When i was in England between 01-04 and i went to Thorpe lets say about ten times a year i never saw any trouble, it was allways really friendly. But thats because when i left in 04 i think the park started aiming to the higher thrills, to get teens and young adults to come in. And this is because teens and yound adults have money, and they are stuiped enough to spend all of it in a cafe or the arcade or soemthing (no affence).

So personally, it doesent quite have do to with the location , because people come from all of the world to go to certain theme parks. People in Texas (like me self) Will go all the way to CA just to go to Six Flags Magic Mt. So the location does not really matter. So all in all, its the ride types and the crowds they want to draw in. Kinda Ka is drawing in teens and young adults meaning, problems fighting ect. So this is how i see this issue. I am glad that you brought this up it is deffently a good topic with a lot of mixed pov's.

- Max

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security force and management has alot to do with it.

Since Cedar Point was, and still is my home park I can tell you that when the park started adding all of these really huge rides that draw in more teens and young adults the park atmosphere starts to change. I never remember hearing much cussing at CP until about six or seven years ago. Another big factor is the security and how strictly the rules are enforced. The CP employees and security are very strict, but it keeps the park orderly and secure. If a CP gaurd sees you running he/she will stop you and give you a warning (its happened to me). The dress code is also enforced very well. I've seen some of the ride attendants in line call in a few people for what they've worn to the park.

I really think 99.9% of the atmosphere of the park is relient upon the security and the rules. If visitors know that they will be punished for not following the rules they will be less likely to do something bad. If the park security/police are out patroling the park in a decent and visible way that is a great deterent to crime. Parks that use rent-a-cops will naturally have more crime, because people know they can't do much. That is why the Cedar Fair parks have invested the money to have their own police force. I don't believe any of the SF parks have their own dedicated police force that can actually act as a real police dept. can.

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Point Xtreme: Your Xtreme Guide to America's Roller Coast!

8 bits and Goomba-stomping fun is all you need for a fun afternoon. Forget shooting and thousands of polygons, I want bits and funny sounds.

SFOG has problems because you can ride the bus to the park, its not is a good area, and you can get a season pass for only $50. I think those 3 things are what add up to trouble.

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TV/Event Guide Editor

[QUOTE=Phil]SFOG has problems because you can ride the bus to the park, its not is a good area, [b]and you can't get a season pass for only $50[/b]. I think those 3 things are what add up to trouble.[/QUOTE]

What does the price of the tickets have to do with the parks problems?

In the summer time, teens are BORED! What do they do? Buy a seasons pass to their local Six Flags that is just as much as a one day ticket. So then when they are bored they go to Six Flags, and not necesserely to have fun and ride roller coasters. It's a place to just hang out and cause trouble.

Plusb basically what everyone else has said.

Having the season pass so cheap allows for more of an "inner-city" crowd.

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TV/Event Guide Editor

[QUOTE=Montu Man]What does the price of the tickets have to do with the parks problems?[/QUOTE]

You could read my earlier post (#4) or I can explain it again, I suppose. With the season pass being so cheap at some of the Six Flags park, some people that never got one in the past will now get a season pass over just a day of regular admittance. So that means they're there more often as well as the fact that since they're there more often, they don't have to feel the need to focus as much as riding rides since they can go whenever. If they aren't as preoccupied with going on rides, what do you think some of them might do instead?

I know some people disagree with the area theory I and a few others have and instead say it's because of the crowds they're getting due to the new exciting and thrilling rides. Saying that these new rides bring in younger crowds like teenagers and less families. That's true to an extent but parks have always built thesse rides. Almost all big parks get a new thrill ride of some sort every couple years or so. This has been the case for decades. So why now would this become an issue? Also, look at parks like Cedar Point, they get as big of rides as anyone that would bring in teenagers, yet they don't experience nearly as many as these types of problems and they don't even have metal detectors.

While a lot of that has to do with their great security by having their own police force as well as other measures, I think a lot of it still has to do with their location. Their surrounded by small towns and farms for miles. Not to mention, a lot of the people who go there are tourists on an actual vacation. These are people including teens who actually want to ride the coasters and rides, not to start trouble. They came and travled far distances to have fun not worry about getting kicked out for doing something stupid. Last, since a lot of those teens are on vacation, they might be with their parents and of course that will usually keep a kid in check to some degree. Unlike a parent just dropping off their kids and their friends at the front gate of their home park and left unsupervised all day.

I think a lot of that plays into effect. Of course, that's just my opinion.

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YOUR HATRED AMUSES ME

And you can't forget that the park has to actually care about maintaining a family friendly atmosphere. As for the rides aspect, Magic Mountain is advertising themselves as the X-treme park. Now, who do you think that attracts? A lot of teens and not very many families. Cedar Point advertises themselves as an all-around place, which is very true. Thus they not only get the thrill seeking teens and young adults, but they also get a lot of families. I believe that families make up around 60-70% of CP's yearly attendance, and for that matter most of those attending any Cedar Fair park. Now when it comes to location you have a different story. CP is located on Lake Erie, which is known for its pristine tourists areas, and is really an expensive vacation location if you're going to be there for a few days or more, so you are not going to get a lot of the "inner-city" crowd that the SF parks tend to get becuase they are right outside a major city.

Here is another example, this time a SFI park turned into a CF park, Geauga Lake. When the park was the old family-owned Geauga Lake there were very few crowded days and the park had that small, intimate feeling to it. The park is also located in an area where per capita income is very high, which adds to the good feeling you got. When SF took over and it became Six Flags Ohio I thought the park was very nice and the employees were very nice, but it was VERY crowded even for a weekday. Once Sea World of Ohio had been bought and the park transformed into SF Worlds of Adventure I heard some nice comments, but I also heard far more negative reports starting that year. I really don't know what could have contributed to such a rapid change in the park, but whatever it was, it wasn't good. Now Cedar Fair runs the park and I hear very few bad comments about it. As I'm sure you know GL now has its own police force, as seems to be the status quo with CF parks. I really don't know how to assess the park since I haven't been there during a full operation day, but from the Community Day that they held it looked like they had done some major rehab around the park.

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Point Xtreme: Your Xtreme Guide to America's Roller Coast!

8 bits and Goomba-stomping fun is all you need for a fun afternoon. Forget shooting and thousands of polygons, I want bits and funny sounds.

Well, everyone pretty much nailed it. Low prices and thrill rides that cater to the teenage crowd and more inner city people. They bring problems to the park, and that's when stuff happens. Dorney isn't too far from Philly, but the high price of season passes means that teens and low income inner city people can't come to the park as often. Public transportation to the parks is another factor, and security as well. There are plenty of factors as to why they draw the crowds they do.

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Gemini, I totally agree with you and everyone else...Obviously Cedar Fair recognized the problems Six Flags Worlds of Adventure had when it was under SFI control. Before SFI was even in the picture, Geauga Lake was the best kept secret, I used to go there all the time and usually the only people you would see there were families trying to have a nice time at the water park as well as the few but thrilling coasters and flats they had. The park did get pretty bad when SFI got control of the park, and even worse when X-Flight was put in. But the 2003 season had to be one of the best under SFI control because people didn't really come, there were walk ons on every ride even though teens were a big population, there weren't any problems because there weren't as many people at the park.

Now that Cedar Fair is in control and noticed these problems early on, they were able to get permission to hire their own police patrol which is very smart. With the 25 dollar admission this year, theres bound to be tons of teens flocking to the park in the summer. At least now that they have this police force, the park is prepared for anything that will happen. Hopefully the park will adopt Cedar Point's way of handling these situations over time.

^I agree with that.

I also think Teenagers know that Six flags has all the "Big Thrills" over other parks, so they prefer to go to six flags, because they want the thrills. Teenagers are apt to start trouble, especialy gang members.

I kinda agree with the "big city" theory . Big cities have more crime, and many if not all of the SF parks are near big cities or are in big cities. Knots, busch, cedar, and other parks are not as popular as SF to the GP.

Just ask some teenager if he/she would rather go to Knots or SFMM. I bet 85% would say SFMM.

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KILL YOUR T.V.

^ Well nowadays you'll see Six Flags commercials everywhere...Just last year they were still playing Six Flags commercials here in Pittsburgh and the closest Six Flags to us is in Buffalo. But even when Geauga Lake was Six Flags, they advertised massively. You would see tons more discounts to Six Flags Worlds of Adventure than you would see Kennywood or Sandcastle on Coke or Pepsi cans. When there is that much advertisement and publicity going towards these parks, obviously they are going to attract way more thrill hungry teenagers or those who just want to "chill" at the park. But even now, you rarely see commercials for Cedar Point, Hershey Park or Dorney here in Pittsburgh...Every once in awhile you'll see them for Geauga Lake but they aren't as desperate to get people to come as Six Flags is. Six Flags just likes to advertise...advertise....advertise. Why do you think they got Mr. Six? :D

They advertise, advertise, advertise to pretty much try and be in the same sentence when thoughts of Disney, amusement parks, and getaways come up.

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2008 & 2009 TN Coaster Draft Champion
You knew I wanted the other repeat too

[QUOTE=Maxamillious]So personally, it doesent quite have do to with the location[/QUOTE]

YES IT DOES.

Schools in the city compared to schools in the suburbs have vast differences in the kinds of people in them. Thus a theme park easily accessable by the city cheaply will have "bad people" in it because believe it or not they find amusement parks fun too.

Just curious, but doesn't Six Flags have rent-a-cops and not an actual police force...I don't think I've seen actual cops at a Six Flags parks. Maybe that's another factor. The only people I actually saw driving around the parking lot of SFMM is the Six Flags security.

[QUOTE=Snaussysoul]

Just ask some teenager if he/she would rather go to Knots or SFMM. I bet 85% would say SFMM.[/QUOTE]

I'm 45 minutes both ways North and South of Magic Mountain and Knott's - call me lucky, but to the point - everytime I suggest to friends to make a trip out to Knott's, more than 90% of the time, I get in return "Why do you want to go to Knott's? That park blows." - "Why? Magic Mountain has better rides." - "Knott's sucks."

I am a teenager myself, and I have solutions to the SFMM problem:
- Put security cameras all over the park
- If a guy arrives dressed like a gangster, don't allow that guy in. Girls dressed in sexy clothing, ALLOW, while the guys dressed like gangsters, TURN AWAY.

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DRAGON MOUNTAIN

AstroWorld had season passes for nearly $70 - $80, yet it still had difficulty on the Fourth of July with the rumble in the parking lots. AstroWorld was smack dab in the city of Houston, but it never really had any problems with crime, as far as I know.

Dragon Mountain, you can't just judge a person on how the dress. That's not right. I mean, yeah don't allow them in the park if they have vulgarity on their clothing, but not if it's just the style of the clothes they are wearing. And even 'nongangster' clothed people can do harm.

According to SFI's latest marketing 'results', they say Mr. Six is very responsive to teenagers and mothers. Maybe they want Moms with 16 year olds to ride their rides.

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ThrillNetwork Editor (past tense: lectricShark)
Never forget justice is what love looks like in public. -- OXFAM

Just because a park is by a big city, doesn't mean disruptive crowds should be an issue. SFGAm isn't really [I]that [/I]close to Chicago, yet the crowds are obnoxious and I'm sometimes suprised a gang knife fight doesn't break out. So, I don't really support the "near a big city" theory for most parks as much as I do the "Six Flags just doesn't give a sh!t about enforcing rules and keeping a friendly atmosphere as long as they get their money" theory.

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[QUOTE=Dragon Mountain]
- If a guy arrives dressed like a gangster, don't allow that guy in.[/QUOTE]


Now there's a law suit waiting to happen.

I personally agree that it's may be some of the location but it's also mainly because SF are such poorly maintained parks and not very family friendly and what security they do have don't really care. Their just there to get paid.

There's alot of different reason why SF draws a bad crown.

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