Ahh yes but SFMM has added coasters year after year after year,as has SFGRAM & SFGRADV.


In 03 for example SFMM added Scream!,SFGRAM &SFGRADV added S:UF & of course the very next attraction they all got were?.....youi guessed it yet another coaster.Since Batwing however all SFA has added was PBR in 03 & tornado/bahama blast in 05.....Three water related rides in the span of two years while the coaster parks mentioned above are adding yet another coaster again next year.


Coasterlove likes to see it his way,as does Thunderdan because their local parks are the ones getting the coasters,not the lesser rides like waterslides.....trust me if they were on the other side of the proverbial fence they'd certainly see things alot differently & would be complaining just as loudly as we are.

Point is:SF in their current management can't keep up this plan of adding big e-ticket attractions to only a handful of parks(3) & leave the rest to rot,it's a strategy that's cost them money & has angered investors like MR.Snyder for example who've seen that such a strategy will not & cannot work,if SF wan't to run things that way they can always close the parks they choose to neglect & move the rides in them to the parks they spoil....want some more coasters at SFMM?we've got 8 of them at SFA if corporate would just box..em up & send ...em your way.


That'll save SF a ton of cash.

I don't think water rides are lesser rides. I like water slides as much as I like coasters. I enjoy many waterslides more than most of the coasters at their repsective parks.

Waterslides attract hoardes of people to a park. Attendance figures are out for SFGAm and Geauga Lake and they are up over the previous years. SFGAm's attendance will be as high if not higher than 1999 by the end of the season. 1999 was the year SF added Raging Bull.

All of the parks that have received tornadoes are theme/water parks. The tornado is a major addition to a water park. I have been to five of the parks that have received a tornado this season. In every one of these parks, it had the longest line in the water park section. (I even choose SFA as the park to experience my first ride.) It can be and is advertised as a major attraction. It is an awesome ride and much better than an SLC like some of the parks had...much better than a new floorless IMO.

Pretzel-Loop's numbers say allot, even if they only include the coaster as a major attraction. While I disagree with counting kiddie and tivoli coasters as major coasters, isn't it strange how SFA has added more major attactions than parks that are in the first, second, third, ninth and 11th largest markets in the country. SFA is in the 23rd largest market in the country. Six Flags brought up the number of major attractions to their new parks when they branded the park.

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SFGADV, DP, IB, SFSTL, W.Dells, SFGAM, PKI, HW, SFKK, HHNJ, SFA, Clementon, SFNE & LC in '05

Disneyland, California Adventure, Knotts, SFMM, Dollywood, Rye & Coney Island in '06

[QUOTE=BatwingFan SFA]Ahh yes but SFMM has added coasters year after year after year,as has SFGRAM & SFGRADV.

In 03 for example SFMM added Scream!,SFGRAM &SFGRADV added S:UF & of course the very next attraction they all got were?.....youi guessed it yet another coaster.Since Batwing however all SFA has added was PBR in 03 & tornado/bahama blast in 05.....Three water related rides in the span of two years while the coaster parks mentioned above are adding yet another coaster again next year.
[/QUOTE]

Your crystal ball is simply amazing. I haven't heard any of the above parks are adding new coasters next year. Oh, in case you didn't notice, water rides at SFA pull the crowds in. Remember, SFA has received five new coasters since 1999. The same as the big five parks with the exception of SFOT.

[QUOTE]

Point is:SF in their current management can't keep up this plan of adding big e-ticket attractions to only a handful of parks(3) & leave the rest to rot,it's a strategy that's cost them money & has angered investors like MR.Snyder for example who've seen that such a strategy will not & cannot work,if SF wan't to run things that way they can always close the parks they choose to neglect & move the rides in them to the parks they spoil....want some more coasters at SFMM?we've got 8 of them at SFA if corporate would just box..em up & send ...em your way.

[/QUOTE]

Wait a minute, SFA received a multi-million dollar waterpark makeover this season. SFNE received a Master Blaster and new roller coaster. Where is the year after year precedent coming in. SFMM didn't add a new coaster this year or last. SFOT? nada this year. SFOG? nada this year. SFGadv didn't add a new coaster last year. SFGam is the only big five park that added a new coaster last season and it was a wild mouse. Face it, your old stale argument doesn't hold water and you know it. By the way, Snyder isn't going to add coasters initially, instead he's wants to add family rides. So guess what, your going to be enjoying the coasters at SFA for a few more years so think long and hard before you think about shipping coasters off to another park (btw, speak for yourself, I for one think SFA has a great collection of coasters and wouldn't trade it for the world). Oh! Wait a minute, your not going to pout and insist until SFA adds a new coaster your not going to renew your season pass.

You mised my point ther Pretzel loop,my point is that the parks getting the coasters are getting just that....every time say SFGRADV adds a new ride it turns out to be a coaster,same at SFMM & for the most part SFGRAM.

As of now we know,for certain that 3 SF parks are getting a coaster,they are SFOG,their 3rd since 02,SFMM, their 5th or 6th since 99 or 2000,SFGRADV,their 3rd since 03.

I'm counting from the year that SFA's & a few other parks got their last coaster so the coasters added to these parks prior to 01 don't really count.

You know what? I think I'm going to give up. It's too hard to have an intelligent discussion if people want to be all "closed-minded-coaster-enthusiast" about it. Until people realises that no roller coaster does [u][i][b]not[/b][/i][/u] equal neglect, there is no way to intelligently carry on this conversation. It makes my brain hurt because people are not thinking about it from a true business standpoint as I am. People need to realise that SFI is a business, and they are looking at this from a business standpoint. I don't care what park is my homepark, the last two quarters have shown that SFI is doing good business. That's all I've got to say on this for a while.

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[QUOTE=EastCoastn07]Do you realize that After X-Flight in 2001, the first attraction the park got was a slide complex in 2003. If Six Flags was wondering why attendance dropped, this might be a reason.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you're my bud, but do you realize how sill that sounds? We've chatted about this before and think about what you're saying. You're complaining about the fact that they didn't add anything for only a couple of years after they added five new coasters and also a whole new animal park? Seriously, you have to be kidding, right. Even some of the biggest and best parks in any chain have gone that long or longer without adding anything big.

[QUOTE=BatwingFan SFA]Coasterlove likes to see it his way,as does Thunderdan because their local parks are the ones getting the coasters,not the lesser rides like waterslides.....trust me if they were on the other side of the proverbial fence they'd certainly see things alot differently & would be complaining just as loudly as we are.
[/QUOTE]

I like to see it [I]my way[/I] because it makes sense. It's not that I'm happy because my homepark gets new stuff (don't get me wrong, I am happy), it's that I realize my homepark is only a half hour drive from Chicago and not a lot further from Milwaukee as well. I don't know exact figures but I'd guess there is at least somewhere in the range of 8-10 million people with two hours of SFGAm. So when they get new rides and attractions, they'll reap the awards which is much higher attendance. Parks in areas which aren't as populated won't be able to draw the larger crowds when they've gotten a new attraction.

Is it disappointing if your park doesn't get new attractions as often? I'm sure it is but that's sometimes how business is. If it's not a bigger park in a crowded area, they won't get as many new attractions. Also, anyone near these smaller parks should be happy. Yeah, I said happy, and I'll explain why. Most of these smaller [I]neglected[/I] parks were originally owned and operated by someonee other than SF. So the point is that someone sold these parks either because they were losing money or weren't making enough profit to satisfy their previous owner. So if it weren't for Six Flags, those parks may have closed down for good.

So next time you're at these [I]neglected[/I] parks, take satisfaction in knowing because of Six Flags, you still have a park to go to. Also that while they may not have added many coasters over the years, it's still a lot more than the previous owners did. So be greatful and stop whining about how your park doesn't get a new coaster every other year. And if you can't do that, move to New Jersey, California, Chicago, Ohio, Texas or Florida. Then you'll have all the parks and coasters you can handle.

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I want to go to John's Park.

[QUOTE=BatwingFan SFA]You mised my point ther Pretzel loop,my point is that the parks getting the coasters are getting just that....every time say SFGRADV adds a new ride it turns out to be a coaster,same at SFMM & for the most part SFGRAM.

As of now we know,for certain that 3 SF parks are getting a coaster,they are SFOG,their 3rd since 02,SFMM, their 5th or 6th since 99 or 2000,SFGRADV,their 3rd since 03.

I'm counting from the year that SFA's & a few other parks got their last coaster so the coasters added to these parks prior to 01 don't really count.[/QUOTE]

You keep changing things, in the second paragraph you gave stats since 99. In the third paragraph you said you were counting from the last time SFA and a few other parks got their last coaster which is 01. Which is it? Besides, what difference does it make if a park has received five coasters in six years or three coasters in three years. The return is still five coasters over a period of five years.

You keep talking coasters, don't other improvements count?

Coasterlove: our park was recieving rides on a much more consistant basis(both coasters & flats) in the years that it was known as Adventure World....from 93 through 98 they added at least one new ride,sometimes two per year & it did pay off as attendnace at the park improved over those seasons.


SF comes in there(technically the same owners) & PROMISES to add new attractions in the future,Burke himself even stated at the press conference in 98 that he hoped to make SFA on of their "finest six flags parks" & so far what has Burke done since then? he spent alot of money on the entire chain $200/$300 mill in cap ex up through 01 & after that has dropped it down to at most $150 mill. which is simply not enough to cover each park so it seems his promise to improve parks like SFA have falen by the wayside in favor of only SFMM,SFGRADV & SFGRAM.


This has caused a chainwide drop in attendance especially at the parks that aren't getting new rides & the guests,as well as the investors(like Snyder) are beginning to realize that corporate has made very poor choices in terms of where the capital for new rides is going to.Snyder plans to change that assuming he gains control & ousts Burke because if Burke keeps running the chain the way he has since 02 then pretty soon there might not even be an SFI period.....the company will end up going out of business & ALL of their parks may be forced to close permanently.

It's pretty hard to take you seriously if you're going to have delusions of granduer. Do you really believe something as stupid as what you just said? Do you really believe that SF will go completely out of business and all of their parks will close? That's just stupid. I'm sorry to be so harsh but that's the only way to describe it. Even if some of their smaller parks did have to close, you think that SFGAd, SFGAm and SFMM and a few of their other huge parks would ever have to close?


[QUOTE=BatwingFan SFA]Coasterlove: our park was recieving rides on a much more consistant basis(both coasters & flats) in the years that it was known as Adventure World....from 93 through 98 they added at least one new ride,sometimes two per year & it did pay off as attendnace at the park improved over those seasons.
[/QUOTE]

What rides and coasters? If they were so successful, then why did they sell? When SF took over, that's when they got their new and best stuff. They got coasters like Joker's Jinx, Superman: Ride of Steel and your namesake, Batwing. I'm sure they have also received other rides and attractions during that time also. If it wasn't for SF, you wouldn't have those rides and you might not even have a park. So I think that you should be thankful for what you have. Looking at your name, I'm sure you must be happy with Batwing, so stop complaining about what you're not getting and start enjoying what you got courtesy of Six Flags. And one more thing, you don't know when they might get their next coaster. It could be next year or the one after for all you know.

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I want to go to John's Park.

Coasterlove,

While I agree with the majority of your post, it's pointless, he has been trying to make the same case on other forums for years. The only problem is, it's like a bucket with no bottom. It just doesn't hold water.

One correction though, you may not realize this. SFA/Adventure World was bought from the owners of Wild World after the park went bankrupt in a savings and loan scandal in the early 90's. A newly formed company named Tierco (whose first park was Frontier City) purchased SFA and saved it from the wrecking ball that was about to swing through Wild One. After it was realized the park needed a new name change, to get ride of the negative image Wild World had, Tierco decided to rename the park Adventure World. A few more park acquisitions later and Tierco decided to rename the company to Premier Parks. In 1998, Premier Parks purchased Six Flags from Time Warner and subsequently renamed Adventure World to Six Flags America, followed by another corporate name change to Six Flags. My point, just name of the company changed to Six Flags. Kiernan Burke was CEO of Premier Parks before they changed the corporate name to Six Flags.

1/4 of Six Flags business comes from SFGAdv and SFGAm.

V2, Deja Vu' and the two S:UF rides may have been mistakes at the time. However, they compliment the existing rides at the parks. Their installation have made possible the removal of old rides like Shockwave and the possible removal of Whizzer at SFGAm and the removal of Viper and 15* flat rides from SFGAdv. Dark rides would have been even better for the two parks. The real dark rides cost much more than a coaster.

*
Spinnaker (Zamperla polyup/monster) 2001
El Sombrero (Mack hully gully/trabant) 2001
Centrifuge G-Force (Eli Bridge scrambler) 2001
Time Warp (Chance double inverter) 2001
Pirate's Flight (Zamperla) 2002
Evolution (Nauta Bussink evolution) 2003
Jumpin' Jack Flash (HUSS Jump) 2003
Pendulum (HUSS Frisbee) 2003
Beep Beep Buggies (Hampton kiddie cars) 2004
Pepe Le Pew's Pleasure Cruise (kiddie boats) 2004
Daffy Duck's Magical Motorcade (Hampton kiddie cars) 2004
Marvin the Martian's Space Chase (kiddie ferris wheel) 2004
Daffy's Duckaneer (Zamperla kiddie boat) 2004
Wile E. Coyote's Speed Trap (Zamperla kiddie whip) 2004
Looney Tunes Log Jam (Hampton kiddie bumper cars) 2004

- Jungleland Express (Zamperla train) SBNO 2005 for redesign
- Chaos (Chance) to be removed

- Slingshot (pay attraction) 2001
- Turbo Bungy (pay attraction) 2002

+ S:UF< Batwing
+ Jumbo
+ Kingda Ka< S:ROS

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SFGADV, DP, IB, SFSTL, W.Dells, SFGAM, PKI, HW, SFKK, HHNJ, SFA, Clementon, SFNE & LC in '05

Disneyland, California Adventure, Knotts, SFMM, Dollywood, Rye & Coney Island in '06

Either in 1998 during my employee training in the last Time Warner owned year or when Premier Parks took over I heard something like 85% of America is within a day of a Six Flags park. If indeed parks are sold in a Dan Snyder led Six Flags corporation perhaps they could be franchised like Subway? Already all this expanse has occurred, the Six Flags name is furthered pushed in some smaller markets. It would be a shame if SFKK went back to just Kentucky Kingdom, for the big name to leave some markets. Perhaps a new amusement group franchisee could run a group of smaller parks away from the focal larger parks.

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Thrillnetwork Moderator - Rookie Year CHILLERLC1
Philadelphia Phillies - the 2008 World Champions!!!
Me and my crumbs of playoff hopes.

Does it really matter if a theme park has the name of Six Flags on it? I don't think it does.

You don't see people flocking to Cedar Point, ValleyFair, Knott's Berry Farm, etc. because they're owned by CF do you? No. Most people don't realize the ownership behind them and I think that alone is an assett to the individuality of the parks. If the ownership name is removed from a property, then you have no pre-concived notion of what to expect.

The SF name in some parks instances causes them more harm then good. If you follow the thinking that if you've been to one bad "insert franchise here (Pizza hut, subway, McDonalds, etc.)" then they're all bad, then the SF name hurts them for the parks that have been 'neglected'.

There's no doubt that some SF parks are better than others. If you've been to a good SF park, then you expect certain things and vice-versa. SF should hope to bring all of their parks up to a certain performance level (rides, customer service, pricing, etc.). That would most certainly help not only the public perception but help put value back in to the company. Look at CF and Paramount owned parks. As enthusiasts, we know who owns what and we expect a certain level of performance when we go to them. I don't think it's any secret that when we go to a SF park, we are not going to get the same performance level.

Again...in my opinion, that needs to be a key issue that the current or future management of Six Flags needs to deal with.

On to the issue of who would buy the parks if SF indeed sold some properties. Would it really matter if they were run well? Some folks have an issue with SFMM. If another company came in and upgraded the performance level, would you really care who owned it? No. You'd go have a good time and as long as that ownership took care of the park, put in new rides on a reasonable schedule, but didn't have the SF, CP or Paramount name on it, would you care?

Just my two cents worth....

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Thrillnetwork Editor

It matters to coaster enthusiasts. I don't know if it matters to everday guests. I have had fun at almost every Six Flags park. The only one that wasn't for me was Great Escape and it is the only park that isn't branded Six Flags (Great Escape.) The difference I notice to this day in te parks are at the former Preimer Parks (SFNE, SFA, SFWoA & SFKK.) The ride ops are much slower, less friendly and won't let you ride again. However the themeing is newer simply because the parks were transformed later. SFGAdv has been too influenced by management from SFNE & SFWoA in the past five seasons as the ride ops have gotten noticably slower and there are too many unneccessary safety precautions that don't make the everday guests anymore safe. They just idiot proof the ride for the lawyers' sake.

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SFGADV, DP, IB, SFSTL, W.Dells, SFGAM, PKI, HW, SFKK, HHNJ, SFA, Clementon, SFNE & LC in '05

Disneyland, California Adventure, Knotts, SFMM, Dollywood, Rye & Coney Island in '06

ThunderDan, thanks for the info on the number of rides Great Adventure has lost over the years. It once again shows BatwingFan's theory doesn't hold water.

I think a brand name does matter in some situations and it's SF fault that it does. Six Flags built a brand name. It's always been Six Flags over Georgia, Six Flags over Texas etc.... you see the words Six Flags and think amusement park. Cedar Fair never labeled their parks Cedar Fair's Dorney Park or Cedar Fair's Worlds of Fun. So they aren't identified by a brand and therfore it doesn't matter. But when SF labels a park a Six Flags Park you expect a certain quality, ride and show based on the name and reputation of the company over the years.