Magic Mountain to open new roller coaster in 2009 - Page 4

Chris L · #46 03-09-2008, 08:43 AM

^ Michael C, for someone that has actually been to both parks, I can say how many are really exception. A good number of them -- in each.

I find it funny how you're able to make a comment about either park's coasters and how there are other parks with far superior coaster selections considering you haven't been to Magic Mountain nor Cedar Point.

**Michael C** · #47 03-09-2008, 10:51 PM

That will hopefully change soon. I have a trip set up to hit CP this summer. and SFMM will get hit sooner or later.

but are you saying that every caster in the park are top of their game and better ten anything else out there. a third in this case is 5-7 coasters with the rest basically being supporting actors. there may be some good ones in that line up but not truly exceptional. what I'm trying to get out as when numbers are your focus overall quality is lost form some of the attractions.

but look at line ups at parks like BGE, Alton towers, BGT, IOA, even SFOG. longer between coaster better overall result in the end.

Chris L · #48 03-10-2008, 02:12 AM

No, I never said every coaster in the park are "better than anything else."

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Yes, I've seen and am aware of the lineups at parks like BGE, Alton Towers, Etc.

You're actually taking your own point and contradicting yourself. You're saying out of all the coasters at Cedar Point and Magic Mountain, only a select few are good coasters.

Then you bring up Alton Towers and those Busch parks as a counterpoint. But the same can be said exactly of these parks too. Sure those parks have good coasters, but only a select few of them am I right? I would hardly consider Cheetah Chase, Scorpion, Spinball Whizzer, Corkscrew, Runaway Mine Train and Rita Queen of Speed good or even truly exceptional.

At a park like Alton Towers, out of the few number of coasters they have -- you could argue two or three of them truly "excel." At a park like Magic Mountain and Cedar Point, that number is much bigger, which is thanks in part to the size of their roster.

But then again, Cedar Point and Magic Mountain really are exceptions. Having a huge count, with relatively good rides.

As a contrast...you have Canada's Wonderland with a hefty 15-coaster total and a good half of those are cookie-cutter rides that most enthusiasts would cringe at the thought of (First Generation Boomerang, SLC, Zamperla Volare, Mack Mouse). Oh almost forgot to throw in their Togo Stand-Up and a 4-loop Arrow from 1981.

James · #49 03-10-2008, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris L

.you have Canada's Wonderland with a hefty 15-coaster total and a good half of those are cookie-cutter rides that most enthusiasts would cringe at the thought of (First Generation Boomerang, SLC, Zamperla Volare, Mack Mouse). Oh almost forgot to throw in their Togo Stand-Up and a 4-loop Arrow from 1981.

Just for fun.... The SLC was a 95 install (that makes it one of the first 4 ever made) it was also the first and is only one in Canada..as well as being the first invert in the country.

The mouse was Macks first to have the "big" drop.. So it wasnt a clone.. clones were made OF it (much like the parks Vortex was later cloned into Topgun at KI)

And the "4 loop arrow" is one of the smoothest non B&M loopers I've been on.

O Demon Avenger · #50 03-10-2008, 07:01 AM

I actually see both of your points however, I have been to cedar point just last year. I've also been to both busch gardens and a few six flags and kings dominion. I think the over all quality of the busch parks is far better than any cedar fair park or six flags park.

First, I don't think we should even compare BGE to Cedar Point because they are two very different parks with different goals and philosophys. BGE and BGA should be compared to parks like dollywood and valley fair. Those parks are like premium parks striving for a guest overall park experience. Ceder Fair and Six Flags are purely theme parks with one thing in mind. If anything we should take and only compare rides that are similar like lochness monster and corkscrew, Big bad wolf and Iron Maiden. That would be fair on both sides.

Busch Entertainment is going for the overall park experience not just the biggest, fastest or highest ride. They actually take time and figure out a way to intergrate a ride into the park. They just don't clear a space and drop a coaster in like you would in roller coaster tycoon.

Just because a ride is very fast or tall doesn't mean that it's not a good ride. Look at Big Bad Wolf at BGE. Now compare that to the same ride at cedar point, but it's called Iron Dragon. I believe Cedar Point should take that ride down. I thought that it was just a big ride for kids. It's not very fast, there's no good elements to it.

I love cedar point, but I don't think they are interested in a guest overall park experience. I don't think I have heard anyone say anything bad about any of the rides at BGE. They are all quality rides. That's why they scrapped Drachen Fire back in the day. People complained it was rough, I rode it and to me it was almost like flight of fear is now at KD. the back half of the train is very rough.

But again, to very different parks.

**Leo C** · #51 03-10-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Just for fun.... The SLC was a 95 install (that makes it one of the first 4 ever made) it was also the first and is only one in Canada..as well as being the first invert in the country.

The mouse was Macks first to have the "big" drop.. So it wasnt a clone.. clones were made OF it (much like the parks Vortex was later cloned into Topgun at KI)

And the "4 loop arrow" is one of the smoothest non B&M loopers I've been on.

The info about the SLC install and that Mack Mouse is news to me. That's pretty interesting that the CW Vortex came first and then KI Top Gun was cloned from it. It should have came as a ringer to me since it perfectly fits the fake mountain and the terrain. Their 4 loop arrow features the only?/rare left corkscrews.

**Michael C** · #52 03-10-2008, 12:01 PM

CHILLERLC1 - i didn't say only a portion were good i said only a portion was exceptional. Let me use SFNE for an example. they have their 10th coaster on the way. Superman is the only Exceptional coaster. Batman, Pandemonium, and Thunderbolt would be good. everything else are lower end or clones. can't judge batman: DK yet since it hasn't opened, if it dose open. but it is at it's core an of the shelf wild mouse.

That is my point with SFMM and CP. There are a few Exceptional coaster. then you will have some good coaster fallowed by ones that are simply there. as quantity becomes a priority you get more of the good to simply there additions.

James - great points, but with keeping with the statements I was making he is right. out of 15 coasters there are a few exceptional coasters. Then a lot of coaster that would be looked at as good or simply there.

**Ryan F** · #53 03-10-2008, 12:08 PM

Michael, you have to also remember that a coaster that doesn't meet your exceptional standards isn't the same for 95% of the park goers.

Top Gun at Canada's Wonderland is your basic SLC, and to many coaster enthusiasts a piece of crap and a cookie cutter. Yet Top Gun...oops Flight Deck...always has one of the longest lines in the park. Same goes for Tomb Raider, the ride is tiny and many enthusiasts hate it, but it always has a pretty long line. Same goes for the Fly and even Thunder Run.

I've been to Cedar Point on days where your so called non-exceptional coasters have lines of 45min to over an hour.

**Leo C** · #54 03-10-2008, 12:11 PM

like probably Wildcat and Disaster Transport - that ride is still around? Since SFMM backed down this is a great chance for CP to take Iron Dragon down.

**Michael C** · #55 03-10-2008, 05:26 PM

WildeFyre - True but a line doesn't mean it's an exceptional coaster. Take Canobie for example. cannonballs a good coaster while corkscrew is enjoyable but simply there as well as dragon coaster. That didn't stop guests form waiting in very long lines for all the coasters. many of the flat rides as well. when attendance is high they will go on any ride they can tolerate. it doesn't mean the ride is suddenly a better ride.

CHILLERLC1 - I think we found the same page. those are very good example of coaster that are either good or simply there.

**Ryan F** · #56 03-10-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael C

WildeFyre - True but a line doesn't mean it's an exceptional coaster.

No, but when it's one of the coasters a large majority of guests run to when the rope drops probably says something about the popularity.

O Demon Avenger · #57 03-11-2008, 09:24 PM

Thank you Michael C. That was very well put. I am one of those guest that will tolerate a ride if everything else is full.That is how I ended up on Iron Dragon and there was a group of people in front of me that was in the same situation. People will at least ride something especially if they drove over 10 hours to get there.

**Michael C** · #58 03-12-2008, 03:40 PM

The other thing I noticed is at parks with a POP set up people will ride just about anything. at a carnival or a park with a PPR set up they will only ride what they really want. but in a POP park every ride gets attention. Small flat ride are not only ridden by kids of Family tend to see older riders. rides tend to see more repeat rides as well.

when I went to Rye Playland and got the POP option I hit everything they would let me on. if I had to pay per ride I would have only hit about a third of what I did.

**Leo C** · #59 03-13-2008, 11:38 AM

I paid per ride with deducted points on my card at Rye and only rode the rollercoasters and the unique carousel that them and Cedar Point have. I skipped the Dark rides and since those rides at Rye get attention I need to ride those when I return.

Is it alright to dream that SFMM gets a woodie that's like the Intamin Plug n Play T-Express in layout that could be more fun?

**Michael C** · #60 03-20-2008, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHILLERLC1

I paid per ride with deducted points on my card at Rye and only rode the rollercoasters and the unique carousel that them and Cedar Point have. I skipped the Dark rides and since those rides at Rye get attention I need to ride those when I return.

Is it alright to dream that SFMM gets a woodie that's like the Intamin Plug n Play T-Express in layout that could be more fun?

The darks rides are Rye's best attractions. I didn't care for any of the coasters they had. The derby Racer was also a very good attraction. It's definitely worth the time to check out the dark rides. the Flume was also an impressive attraction.

It's always alright to dream. never hurts to think of thing a park could or might get. I doubt it would be something they would get any time soon. They are simply too pricey at this time. if the price comes down or in the future when the park is in better financial shape them it's possible.