Interview with Dick Kinzel

**Ryan F** · #1 05-12-2008, 05:40 PM

Found this article on Screamscape and thought I would post it. There's some pretty cool Q&As in it.

Quote:

During his career, Cedar Fair Entertainment Co. boss Richard Kinzel has gone from managing hot dog stands on the midway at Cedar Point to now running the North America's third-largest amusement park chain.

The company's chief executive officer since 1986, he oversaw the acquisition of five parks from Paramount Parks Inc. in 2006. Cedar Fair parks now include: Cedar Point, in Sandusky; Kings Island, in Cincinnati; Great America, in Santa Clara, Calif.; Canada's Wonderland, in Toronto, Canada; Kings Dominion, in Richmond, Va.; and Carowinds, in Charlotte, N.C.

Kinzel sat down with The Associated Press last week to discuss Cedar Fair's future expansion plans, roller coasters and how technology will change the way people visit amusement parks.

Q: What have you been able to incorporate from the Paramount parks into Cedar Fair?

A: We've pretty much adopted their admission system. This year, for example, we're trying to make it easier for season pass holders so they don't have to wait in line. Our goal is to have the Hotel Breakers and Camper Village at Cedar Point cashless by 2010. You'll be able to walk into the hotels and get a key that will be your credit card and you'll be able to use it in some areas of the park and in the hotel.

We're trying to make it more convenient for them to come to the park and spend money.

Q: Do you foresee any additional expansion?

A: Right now our balance sheet is really tight. We have a lot of debt. So, no, I really don't see anything. What I'd like to do is get the debt down, and in four or five years start looking to expand the company through internal growth or external growth. Or if we could do a joint venture with someone, that would be great.

Q: Would you be growing in terms of parks or hotels, maybe indoor water parks?

A: I think it would be just parks. We have one indoor water park now, Castaway Bay, but now there are water parks all around. I don't think we would invest any of our money into that. There are still some parks out there we'd be interested in looking at and growing our own parks.

If we had the money on the balance sheet, we have hotel opportunities at Kings Dominion and Carowinds and in Canada. We have plenty of land around all of those parks to make it into a resort community like Cedar Point.

Q: Was that something you had in mind when you bought the Paramount parks?

A: Yes, it really was. Plus they're in the southern region. Charlotte is a high growth area. Richmond is doing very well. We felt Santa Clara in California was an underutilized property. The one we were really surprised by was Canada's Wonderland. It's going to be a great property.

Q: Is Canada's Wonderland going to be the next big park in the chain?

A: At the end of this year, it's probably going to be Cedar Point giving us the largest attendance and Canada's Wonderland will be second. It really wouldn't surprise me if Canada's Wonderland really challenges Cedar Point this year for attendance.

Q: Will you continue to put money into the water parks?

A: Water is a cheaper alternative to rides. You have to keep putting different elements in. At Carowind's we're putting a wave pool in, but still you're talking $3.5 million. It depends on the market; you have to keep refreshing.

Q: Do you get more bang for your buck on the water parks?

A: No, the margins are much lower at the water parks. The reason for that is it's tough for people to carry money and when they get wet, they don't like to buy merchandise, they don't like to play games. It's tough to buy food with wet money. We're looking at ways of having a debit card inside the water park so people don't have to carry money.

Q: Last fall, the decision was made to remove the rides from Geauga Lake near Cleveland and operate it as only a water park this year. How tough was that decision?

A: For me, it was very difficult to do, because it was my idea, my reputation to spend $144 million to buy it. But the numbers just weren't there. It was really the right answer to close it because it was losing money. Now our plan is to have the largest water park in the state of Ohio.

Q: Are there any other parks in danger of closing?

A: No, we have great properties now. We're in great markets, and we have no plans to close any parks.

Q: Since the debut of Top Thrill Dragster at Cedar Point in 2003, there haven't been any new record-breaking coasters at Cedar Fair parks. Has there been a change in philosophy?

A: Cedar Point will always be the coaster capital of the world. We put Maverick in last year and that was a $21 million coaster. We had the first 200-foot-coaster, the first 300-foot-coaster, the first 400-foot-coaster, where do you go after that? We decided to try to appeal to the teens and the coaster group and put in a ride that is altogether different.

Going forward, I don't know if we'll go over 400 feet or not, but we'll come up with different inversions and different kinds of coasters.

Q: What's the plan for the Paramount parks?

A: In all of the Paramount parks, the emphasis was on wooden coasters, and they put in some great wooden coasters. We felt if we were going to grow those parks, we had to put some steel coasters in there to appeal to the coaster lovers and teen market.

Q: Technology is out there to build coasters over 400 feet. Does it make sense to go bigger?

A: Financially, no. The price of steel today is unbelievable. We're constantly keeping track of steel prices to see what we can put in because we're ordering these coasters three years ahead of time. We're ordering coasters now for 2010. You can go as high as you want, but from a financial point, it's hard to justify.

Q: Does that mean there will be more emphasis on family attractions instead of roller coasters?

A: No, we're always going to try and appeal to the thrill market. People like being scared in a safe environment. This year we're putting in five roller coasters, three thrill rides and 18 new shows. It's a delicate balance. You want to make sure you know what people want.

Q: How do you know what guests want?

A: We take surveys every day in all of our parks. At the end of the year, we compare all of the parks. We ask leading questions that help us in our decision making. They'll let you know if they're paying too much or if they've had a bad day.

http://www.ohio.com/news/ap?articleID=524294&c=y

I like the emphasis he's putting on Canada's Wonderland and says that a hotel might be in the future when the money is right. I always thought that the park could use a hotel (an indoor water park would be cool too), there's a nice plot of land right across the street next to the employee entrance road. I also like how he acknowledges that CW is competition for CP in terms of attendance and revenue...Wonderland has got more attendance that Canada's Wonderland a few times. Let's see what happens with Behemoth in place now.

The part about ordering purchasing coasters 3 years in advance was pretty cool too. Who knows what park already has a coaster bought for the 2010 and 2011 seasons now.

The only thing I didn't like is how he says that he wants to keep Cedar Point the "Coaster Capital of the World." To me, that just sounds like he won't be putting in any record breaking coasters in any of the other parks, or enough coasters to beat Cedar Point's record number.

trombonetrek87 · #2 05-12-2008, 09:10 PM

Makes sense to me. Cedar Fair bit a lot off to chew with buying the Paramount Parks, and now they have to really pinch their pennies. I can see how Kinzel doesn't want any new coasters for a bit at CP, really everywhere else in the chain is only getting GL's coasters minus CW. Everything written in that interview is exactly what I would expect a CEO of a major entertainment company to say.

Plus, where are they going to put another coaster at CP without taking another one out? And if so, which one do you take out? I say Mean Streak. I wouldnt be surprised to see Disaster Transport bite the dust either, but I don't want that to happen (no one has ever said anything about it, I was just thinking). Other than those two, and with so much space taken up by the kiddie areas, the camping on the north end, and the older staff buildings on the point, I just cant see another coaster coming to CP for a while, as its just not very financially smart. I guess you could make an argument now that another park could possibly overtake CP in attendance. There is no way though that any other park is going to take in more money than CP though, not with the world class coasters.

steel · #3 05-12-2008, 09:25 PM

I don't mind the whole thing with keeping Cedar Point the coaster capital. I don't necesserily think that means that everything interesting will go there, just that they aren't planning to stop putting crowd-pleasers in every other year.

Carowinds 73-03 · #4 05-12-2008, 10:36 PM

I read this today. It was a very good interview.

I think he'll continue to put major coasters at each park but nothing that will exceed what's at CP.

GAmFanboy · #5 05-12-2008, 11:03 PM

^ Yeah like he Did With Geauga Lake right (Wink, Wink)

**Andrew Polcyn** · #6 05-12-2008, 11:19 PM

^Funny you say that.

Quote:

Q: Last fall, the decision was made to remove the rides from Geauga Lake near Cleveland and operate it as only a water park this year. How tough was that decision?

A: For me, it was very difficult to do, because it was my idea, my reputation to spend $144 million to buy it. But the numbers just weren't there. It was really the right answer to close it because it was losing money. Now our plan is to have the largest water park in the state of Ohio.

In other words, it was the best thing to do. He's gonna let RWB rot or turn into toothpicks, same with Villian and Big Dipper.

I know people will disagree with me conclusions, but deal with it. Not everyone eats, breathes and dies with the coasters.

That is unless some ACE member has an ungodly amount of money to "Save the Big Dipper."

coasterell · #7 05-13-2008, 12:08 AM

haha funny you should say that about ACE members saving the Big Dipper, I was talking to some season pass holders at CP yesterday and they were joking around about it. Watch those members are gonna bond together somehow and save that ride.

Sadly though I do agree that RWB and Villain are going to be left for pretty much firewood, unless someone comes up with money to buy those as well.

**Leo C** · #8 05-13-2008, 12:23 AM

I didn't like how squeezed in Villian was. It seems like it would fit a tight park, a beach park? Morey's - want a sibling for Great White? For Raging Wolf Bobs I had an incredible first ride and then a second ride that made me disappointed. I wish I had a third ride to tell you where I stood on it.