Their "ad campaign" is non existent. With the exception of billboards, there is zero commercials to be seen. I'm sure they have made some, but the weekend I spend there, not a single one came on and that was after looking at several different channels too.

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2010 Coaster Draft: Round One (Voyage), Round Two (Alpie), Round Three (Superman Krypton Coaster), Round Four (Let's just stay in left field for the heck of it )

Yes.. It was a joke. I will admit i saw 2-3 ad's a day well before the park opened but after opening day not a single commercial aired.

^^ and ^ That could definitely explain a big part of not having the attendance expected. If people either don't know about your park or maybe just forget about it because they are not always reminded of it they are not going to come. However if management pays attention marketing mistakes could be easily fixed.

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Yeah and HRP is not like cigarettes, Disney, or beer. It is not a product that sells itself. You need to advertise so that everyone knows about you. I remember when I went to SF Magic Mountain 5 years ago for the first time. I had no intentions of going to Knotts Berry Farm. Matter of fact, I really never heard of the place (this was prior to me being a coaster junkie). But I was in my hotel room one night and I saw like five different commercials talking about the place. I was not aware of just how close it was to SFMM. So I ended up going there based off the commercials alone. And I'm glad I went too, I had a great time. I would of never went had it not been for those commercials. Advertisements make a HUGE difference.

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2010 Coaster Draft: Round One (Voyage), Round Two (Alpie), Round Three (Superman Krypton Coaster), Round Four (Let's just stay in left field for the heck of it )

Then feel free to start a topic about that. Parks that could be great. How could they get there?

I think HRP could fit in that category better then this one. There are problems but they are easy fixed. Commercials, lower prices, more rides. There are some Reasonably priced Family rides they could look at adding.

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Michael C

HRP may be facing hard times due in part to the national economy,now is the WORST time for any theme park operator/owner to develop & debut a new park from scratch because folks simply don't have the disposable income that was available to them just a decade ago when SFI began their own buying spree that got them in trouble.

Now if things don't change for SFI then I see SFA &SFKK being closed/sold within a few year's time.Shapiro needs to get his h ead out of his butt & realize that OTHER parks in the chain need upkeep & new rides,not just their beloved SFMM,SFGRADV & SFGRAM....this is exactly the kind of thinking that's partly to blame for why Premiere failed at running the SF parks in the first place beginning as early as the 2002 season.

Shapiro has taken a lot more away from Great Adventure then what has been added. They added Dark Knight, Wiggles World (1 new ride really since the other rides were re-themed) and the Glow In the Park Parade.

He took away: Riptide (2nd log flume), Stuntman's Freefall, Koala Canyon (kids water play area), Chiller, Flying Wave, Movietown Water Effect, Bumper Cars (SBNO), Music Express (SBNO), Houdini (SBNO) and I think 1 or 2 more that I can't think of now. Plus all the rides removed in the few years before that.

I'd rather see Great Adventure not get a new coaster for years and add some family rides.

Geagua Lakes water park will be open for awhile. And seeing as how they spend 20 million on it, its not closing. They aready put off selling the land on the ride side.

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The Reason why Shapiro keeps adding to those 3 parks listed is because they are the Cash Cows of the Company. I read somewhere that SFGAM and SFGAd make about 25% of the Companies Revenue. I do however agree that they need to sell KK and SFAM to reinvest in more parks and reduce debt. Also, What Hurt Premier Parks was Over Expansion (Go to this link Theme Park Timelines and find out) and No Even Expansion because they had about 40 parks as well as Bad Customer Service which hurt SFWOAd. However Shapiro is trying to win back Families to Fix the Premier Park Reign with Bad Service and Lack of Attractions. However He is challenged with Huge Debt that Before Premier Parks, Didn't really Exist.

That philosophy within corporate management has got to change because this is just ONE reason among many why the attendance at the smaller parks in the chain has been down lately,no new rides= no new customers & very few repeat customers over time.

SFA for instance was on a rebound when the new rides were installed between 99 & 01,but after that influx of new investments for the park stopped(in favor of the SFMM,SFGRADV & SFGRAM get all the rides,the rest get nothing year after year mode kicked in) the attendance at that particular park slowly dropped off,especially with the fact that KD was adding big new rides at least every other season.When SFA announced that all they were adding for 08 was another puny waterslide(when they added 2 just 3 years before with no investments in between) I'd had enough & decided NOT to renew my season pass until something decent is added.....at least KD has the foresight under CF to add rides that I actually WANT to ride & I'm not just talking about the coasters here.

Aside from the obvious lack of new attractions the park recieves the other thing that turned me off last year were the horrid locker & flashpass policies & until those are changed it will take more than just a shiny new ride to get me back in the gates.

You've become spoiled & accustomed to the fact that SFI treats your park like royalty,come on down here & be forced to go to SFA instead & then you'll soon get accustomed to what it's like to have to go five years without a new ride in the park.This is the sort of impression that people get of parks that aren't cared for & is the reason why GL failed & was doomed to failure after SFI ruined the place.

Not necessarily. I bet you money within a few years time all of those WWK rides will be sent up to Soak City and it re-branded as a "new" Soak City. It's recycling the rides. Besides which, this year WWK made absolutely no money from what I understand. They had minimal attendance and CF added nothing to the mix.

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I agree, If they had no hopes in the water park or felt in any way that the water park couldn't support itself it would have been removed with the park itself.

this has been happening company wide. SFNE has also removed many rides or simply rebranded existing attractions. While the old leadership was failing because they were doing a bit too much. this new leadership may fail for doing too little and scaling back too much.

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Michael C

See with the dual park they were getting the attendance. But, because there aren't enough attractions for a full day at the water park, they just aren't coming to support it anymore. Like I said earlier, it was reported through out the season that the lots were never even to half capacity. There were no lines on any attractions. Obviously, it needed the amusement side to boost people. Now that they have nothing over there that water park is doomed to head up to CP as the new Soak City.

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I disagree that GLWWK will be closing. I would have been there supporting it, if I wasn't out in California. Also I know plenty of people who were supporting the park just for the fact it is a water park.

A lot of the good water parks have closed or are in fear of being closed because they don't have a very good company backing them. I.E. Dover Lake being sold to Boston Mills/Brandywine. So I think GLWWK is gonna be a round for a few years.

I think HRP may be closing because of the outrageous prices.

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I'm sorry to hear that. Has the parking lot for Sea World been scaled down. From the Sky shots that is a very large parking lot so a half filled lot isn't a terrible attendance. but they didn't give up on GL quickly so I think they will work with The water park for a few years to see if things will change. Though This Summer really wasn't a good water park summer.

What happened with the parks Original water park slide?

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Michael C

What they wanted to keep they moved to WWK side. What they didn't they sold at auction, whatever wasn't sold, they trashed.

Coasterell, I understand your point of view, but this year's attendance to WWK disproves that. Water parks just aren't profitable. Even Kinzel said that himself. You can't carry money on you while you are in the water, therefore you are less likely to spend in the park itself.

I honestly think WWK will live on as the new Soak City once CF decides to dump ALL of the land including WWK as what was for sale was land locking them in anyway.

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I don't see the attractions going up to Soak City, even if WWK does close. I think that Kinzel has plans for that park, and if WWK does fail, why should he dump more money into Soak City, seeing as Castaway Bay is up there anyhow?

If the park were to fail, I think he might just scrap the whole thing, and just sell off the attractions just to try and make back a little bit of money.

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Well you have to also take into account the fact that many people in the Cleveland area were a tad bit upset with CF for closing the ride park(and not just enthusiasts either) so that,along with the lackluster economy of the Cleveland region is severely impacting the water park's ability to do a decent business.

I don't think so. Family Kingdom still gets quite a bit of business. What makes you think it'll close?

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I don't see FK going anywhere now that HRP might be closeing for good. Even with HRP FK is still very popular.

Talking to a few people that have been to Family kingdom it will be fine. the park is liked and well attended. A bit short on expansion space but that can be worked around.

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Michael C

Maybe water parts do not make much money in the northern states, but here in the dirty south, they make good money and people do spend money at them, even when people take coolers in.

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you're missing the main point. Water parks int eh north east make money. In fact NH just opened a new ones and Whales Tail in Northern NH have made investments every year. They make money in the general sence.

What is being referred to is the lake of people spending money at water parks. unlike Amusement Parks were per capita spending is high water parks have very low per capita spending. Most peopel bring what they need. Shops normally sell things that were forgotten. Less food is purchased. there are no games to be played. Not to mention Liability is higher then on amusement rides. It all hurts the bottom line.

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Michael C

Alas, payroll is a lot less, if they were not very profitable, they would not keep building them...and, like I said , water parks here in the south do make very good money.

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Life is a journey....enjoy the ride....

What payroll is a lot less? Life Guards do not get minimum wage. I don't know the case in teh south but in NH they get payed 11 and hour and it's 10 I believe in CT. each slide has an attendant IN CT and NH by law. The life guards depends on the splashdown pool, number of slides, or change in visual location. LC has 12 life guards on their Lazy River alone and it's only 850 ft long.

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Michael C

Lifeguards don't make that much more than the rest of the park employees. When I was working at PKI, I made $6/hr and lifeguards made $8/hr. Plus most parks, including CF and WDW pay for lifeguard training, which is far more expensive than training for any other department.

I don't really see how water parks make a lot of money in the north though. I worked in the water park merchandise department in KI and I know that most of our revenue came from locker rentals at $5 of pure profit for all day rental. Most people turned in the keys after just a few hours and it only took one employee (two on busy days) to run the rental kiosk. The shops did very little business, and what we did sell was almost exclusively towels, sunscreen and sodas. When working main park during off-peak, I rang up $100 orders on a common basis, but I think I only did that twice in two summers in the water park. Between reduced profit margins and a short season, there's very little room for making money.

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05.16, 05.17, 05.18, 06.05, 06.06: Cedar Point
05.25.09-06.01.09: KD, SFA, BGE, SFGAdv, Morey's & More!
06.18.09: Holiday World
2009 Diamondback laps: 41

Hersheypark could go defunct, with the way the economy is right now.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day. The number one candy maker defunct? I don't think so. That's like saying Busch Gardens could be defunct. It won't ever happen. They make their money with their product. The amusement park simply compliments both companies.

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2010 Coaster Draft: Round One (Voyage), Round Two (Alpie), Round Three (Superman Krypton Coaster), Round Four (Let's just stay in left field for the heck of it )

The Hershey Company doesn't own Hersheypark.

And how well has the chocolate company done lately? And how about the mass moving to Mexico and places down south? With the Hershey factory being so old, how much longer is it really going to last? And will the Company even have the capital to spend on remodeling the factory? After all, it's always cheaper to build anew than remodel. Especially in Mexico.

I think Hersheypark has an ACE in it's pocket by being positioned alongside other tourist attractions. That's why Dollywood gets such good business - it's right in the heart of tourist trap country. I mean seriously, have you ever driven down 441 through Pigeon Forge? I did it once because we were taking a scenic drive through the Smoky Mountains, but I wish I'd detoured off of it long before I entered Dolly country. However, with so much other stuff in that area, it almost guarantees visitors. The only way far-flung parks can survive is having the most, biggest, baddest, or otherwise crowd-drawing attractions, but if you're right next to something else that draws crowds, you're likely to survive by default.

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05.16, 05.17, 05.18, 06.05, 06.06: Cedar Point
05.25.09-06.01.09: KD, SFA, BGE, SFGAdv, Morey's & More!
06.18.09: Holiday World
2009 Diamondback laps: 41