It's true! Cedar Point really DOESN'T consider Superman: The Escape a roller coaster! It's all hear in this article. You know, I had heard this before, but didn't believe it. I can honeslty say that may view on Cedar Point has gone down a good amount in the past few weeks. I think it's real sad that they debate on whether is is a coaster or not, just to keep their title.

P.S. Please don't turn this into a thread on whether or not Superman: The Escape is a coaster, unless the moderators feel that's okay. Thanks.


Eric Minton, Ohio reporter for Amusement Today magazine, said the most popular rumor he heard is that Cedar Point is attempting to keep its roller coaster count higher than all the other parks and is trying to retain the "fastest and tallest" coaster title -- a claim that is under debate.

Magic Mountain, a Six Flags park in Valencia, Calif., claims to have 14 roller coasters, with No. 15 coming soon. Also, Magic Mountain claims to have the fastest and tallest roller coaster, Superman The Escape, in which a train rockets to the top of a 415-foot tower and then freefalls at 100 mph, according to the park's Web site.

Cedar Point has 14 roller coasters and its largest ride,
Millennium Force, is 310 feet tall and drops at 93 miles per hour, according to its Web site. However, Cedar Point officials do not consider Superman The Escape a roller coaster, Edwards said.

Robin Innes, public relations director at Cedar Point, disputed Magic Mountain's world-record claim in December, saying Superman The Escape is a steel-launched shuttle, not a coaster.

"According to our information, (Magic Mountain) will have 14 coasters and Superman The Escape. Most experts don't consider (Superman The Escape) a coaster," Innes said.

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if i wwere that CP guy id jsut say "ok. demon drop is a coaster. suck on that, sucka. if mm wants to play that way, so be it. demon drop, our 15th coaster."

You can kind of compare Superman: The Escape to a ride at Cedar Point, Demon Drop. No one considers Demon Drop a roller coaster. They aren't exactly the same (and i don't mean in size), because on Demon Drop you lie down and I don't think you use LIM's. I really don't remember. I went on one at SFGAD, and I don't remember it too well. Maybe you are cranked up? Well, I don't know. Whatever...S:TE is a roller coaster. Like Duane Marden has said on rcdb.com, if it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and poops like a duck, its a duck. S:TE uses the same kind of propulsion as a Premier Mad Cobra design, and it runs on rails. For god's sake its a roller coaster.

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i think that both parks shouldnt really care about this. SF wouldnt whine if CP got a dual track impulse (which they wont its a rumor) just because its not full circuit and its the same name. would they?...

1. Superman: The Escape *is* a coaster.

2. Cedar Point cannot call Demon Drop a coaster, because it is not one. And even if they do, SFMM is still up because they also have a first generation Intamin drop.

The truth is CP has 14 coasters, and SFMM has 14 coasters right now. When X opens, it will be 15, but by then CP will have built their coaster, making them both have 15.

I really hope if CP wants to keep their record, they build two very seperate tracks if it is a dueling/racing coaster. Or two very seperate coasters all together.

Because if they make ... let's say theoretically an impulse, but put two right next to each other, then that would be very cheap and stupid, and then you can debate if that is really two coasters.

Whether it is or not (not something to be discussed here) I just say "who cares? build the best park possible!!!" :D

New Debates:

Is CP Downs a carousel?
Is Bayern Kurve a Coaster?
:P (seperate threads if you decide to start debates on these please)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by RiFT [/i]
[B]The truth is CP has 14 coasters, and SFMM has 14 coasters right now. When X opens, it will be 15, but by then CP will have built their coaster, making them both have 15.[/B][/QUOTE]Speaking for myself, I don't go to parks just because one or another has "the most coasters", I go for the quality. While I still love CP, I'd go to Busch Gardens (both of them) over CP if it wasn't so far away.

im wit u smoky. if a park have 30 wilfd mouse coasters but the other one has 5 B&M's, what is better? u huh

I can't believe that they said that experts don't consider S:TE to be a coaster. Without starting the debate again, most enthusiasts believe that the ride is a coaster. I'd consider Intamin to be experts too, and they call it a coaster. Very interesting how marketing works.

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it doesn't matter
if mm had 100 coasters and CP had 14 good coasters i'd still go to CP because they have better quality

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1. Superman: The Escape *is* a coaster.

2. Cedar Point cannot call Demon Drop a coaster, because it is not one.

Okay this cannot just be said with out something to back it. If the Demon Drop went in Reverse i would be the same thing. There is a major difference between a shuttle coaster and a roller coaster.
Once again I bring up, if something finalizes tht S:TE is a coaster. I'm going to build a ramp in CP and get a plastic house and push a shopping cart up it and then bring it back down and make a big press release saying its a coaster. It's the exact same thing. It has wheels, it has track, it has a station of a plastic house, it uses man power, and really its the EXACT same thing only smaller.
S:TE ride is not a coaster only because its a shuttle and its the truth.

Superman is a coaster IMO, I don't care what CP says. Im gonna wait until the next version of guinness comes out, see if they consider SFMM to have 14 or 15 coasters, if 14, we all know Superman isn't considered a coaster.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CPFan [/i]
[B]Superman is a coaster IMO, I don't care what CP says. Im gonna wait until the next version of guinness comes out, see if they consider SFMM to have 14 or 15 coasters, if 14, we all know Superman isn't considered a coaster. [/B][/QUOTE]
hey mods, just close this up and link it to one of the 50 other debates out there on the exact same thing.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by CeDaRPoInTzTeR [/i]
[B]1. Superman: The Escape *is* a coaster.

2. Cedar Point cannot call Demon Drop a coaster, because it is not one.

Okay this cannot just be said with out something to back it. If the Demon Drop went in Reverse i would be the same thing. There is a major difference between a shuttle coaster and a roller coaster.
Once again I bring up, if something finalizes tht S:TE is a coaster. I'm going to build a ramp in CP and get a plastic house and push a shopping cart up it and then bring it back down and make a big press release saying its a coaster. It's the exact same thing. It has wheels, it has track, it has a station of a plastic house, it uses man power, and really its the EXACT same thing only smaller.
S:TE ride is not a coaster only because its a shuttle and its the truth. [/B][/QUOTE]

1. For Demon Drop to be considered a coaster, then your back would have to be perpendicular to the track, not parrell like it is. Besides, if every other park with a 1st gen Intamin freefall doesn't consider them coasters, why should CP? Also, SFMM has the exact same ride, and they don't consider it a coaster either.

2. Shuttle coasters DO qualify as coasters by definition(barely, however). If S:TE wasn't considered a coaster, than no impulse, boomerang, or shuttle loop, would be either.

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CP can't call a twin racing Impulse, dueling woodie, or any twin coasters they get two different coasters. If they did that, then SFMM would just count S:TE as 2 and Collosus as 2. They would be getting beat even worse then.
Raptor, you say your track has to be perpendicular, not parralell to the track. If you use that logic, then, Flying Dutchmen aren't coasters either.
I've heard that parks really don't care about coaster titles. They don't if they are far off, but I'm sure parks that are 1 or 2 coasters away from the record sure do.
If S:TE isn't considered a coaster, then TA2Ks and Impulses shouldn't either. It definately is a coaster.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Inferno [/i]
[B]CP can't call a twin racing Impulse, dueling woodie, or any twin coasters they get two different coasters. If they did that, then SFMM would just count S:TE as 2 and Collosus as 2. They would be getting beat even worse then.
Raptor, you say your track has to be perpendicular, not parralell to the track. If you use that logic, then, Flying Dutchmen aren't coasters either.
I've heard that parks really don't care about coaster titles. They don't if they are far off, but I'm sure parks that are 1 or 2 coasters away from the record sure do.
If S:TE isn't considered a coaster, then TA2Ks and Impulses shouldn't either. It definately is a coaster. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well considering the fact that the Flying Dutchmen do have you in a sitting upright positon in the station...Most people that are arguing on this thread don't even know how either rides work so they shouldn't be typing any bull*****.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Inferno [/i]
[B]CP can't call a twin racing Impulse, dueling woodie, or any twin coasters they get two different coasters. If they did that, then SFMM would just count S:TE as 2 and Collosus as 2. They would be getting beat even worse then.
Raptor, you say your track has to be perpendicular, not parralell to the track. If you use that logic, then, Flying Dutchmen aren't coasters either.[/B][/QUOTE]

Actually, if CP built a dueling woodie or any type of dueler, it COULD count as two, because duelers have completely different layouts, where as racing coasters have almost identical track, so they can't be counted as 2. Collossus and S:TE are racing coasters.

And, flying coasters start you with your back perpendicular to the track, so the definition I used works, and they count.

EDIT: KraxelRIDAH posted that right before me, so I wasn't just copying what he said.

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Isn't it funny how every other park with a 1st Generation Free-fall doesn't take part in this argument? Even those park (SFMM, SFNJ, SFOG...) don't argue that the 1st Generation Free-fall is a roller coaster. And why is it all of sudden when SFMM announces to de-throne Cedar Point that they BEGIN this debate? Why didn't they reject SFMM calling it a roller coaster back in 96-97 when it opened as the most anticipated roller coaster in the world? BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID OF LOSING A POWERFUL MARKETING TOOL. They even know it. All these years they've been putting "Most roller coasters in the world" on their flyers, web-site, and brochures. And now when they don't have that overused claim now, they've feel embarrased that they can't boast something they've been so proud of. So that's why they'll say any **** to defend this. I think it's a good change and give them a hit of no-bull crap. I think this topic has decayed and these tunnel vision, no life, "weve still got the record", won't get over it people should research into this and take a Kleenex and wipe out the sickening residue that's blocking their good true judgement.

Calm down you guys. Parks main draw of patrons is from the local area, so I doubt not having the record "We have the most coasters in the world" will make all that much of a difference either way, it's just a pleasant add-on. Both CP and SFMM really focus on what people will think of the COASTERs they build, not how many of them they build. Because if they can say that the yhave a new COASTER that is the tallest, fastest, etc. THAT is what will bring in the crowds. By the way, you idiots who post in here about the S:TE/Intamin 1st gen. drop rides and dont know the dif, buzz off. Heres the difference, and it's a biggie:

Intamin 1st Gen. Drop Rides: Riders board a single, 4 seater car. The car reverses out of the station and hooks onto a vertical lift. The lift pulls you up, then you hook ont oa new track and slide out onto a frame the holds the cars on while you hook onto another track. Then the frame lets you go and you fall. Imagine it as an L, you fall from the top of the left line of the L, in a curve down to the bottom part, so that you are now staring at the sky. You slow down, then back backwards down into the station, which is under the bottom section of the L. Your car is turned upright. The End.

S:TE/Tower of Terror (I forget what Intami ncalls the ride type suddenly...): You begin at the far right side of the bottom line of the L. You are launched out of the station in single, 15 seater cars. Going down the track, you gain speed and soar upthe left line of the L. After reaching about 4/5 of the way up, you lose speed and experience some major airtime. Then, your car falls back along the track and slows down on the bottom part of the L. The End.

Got it?

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kraxleRIDAH [/i]
[B]Isn't it funny how every other park with a 1st Generation Free-fall doesn't take part in this argument? Even those park (SFMM, SFNJ, SFOG...) don't argue that the 1st Generation Free-fall is a roller coaster. And why is it all of sudden when SFMM announces to de-throne Cedar Point that they BEGIN this debate? [/B][/QUOTE]

let's not confuse this, it is some of the fans of CP who are arguing this, not CP themselves. As far as I know CP has never considered Demon Drop, their first gen freefall ride to be a coaster. I do consider it funny or mabe even sad that some fans of CP will not recognize this. It would do no good for CP to consider Demon Drop to be a coaster when SFMM has a first gen freefall too. I'm a huge fan of CP and would love to see them get the record back... even though they have not lost it yet, not until X opens anyway.

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Can I remind everyone here that this topic is for discussions about Cedar Point's opinion, and not discussions of whether or not Demon Drop is a coaster. If it develops anymore into personal opinions, it will have to be closed because there are already dozens of Demon Drop/S:TE/Coaster Count discussions out there.

Richard

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Richard Wilson [/i]
[B]Can I remind everyone here that this topic is for discussions about Cedar Point's opinion, and not discussions of whether or not Demon Drop is a coaster. If it develops anymore into personal opinions, it will have to be closed because there are already dozens of Demon Drop/S:TE/Coaster Count discussions out there.

Richard [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Richard. I appreciate you trying to keep this thread on topic.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kraxleRIDAH [/i]
[B]

Well considering the fact that the Flying Dutchmen do have you in a sitting upright positon in the station...Most people that are arguing on this thread don't even know how either rides work so they shouldn't be typing any bull*****. [/B][/QUOTE]

then i guess AIR's wouldnt be coasters but Vekoma dutchmen would? hmm?

Cedar Point is entitled to their opinions and I may not always agree with them (like their opinion that Hootie and the Blowfish is listenable, hip, and actual music) and whether or not they have the most coasters doesn't matter to me since I only live about 2 hrs away from the point (does that count as a local market?)

On the other hand if CP hosted MTV's TRL, well now thats blasphemy, and I'd have to boycott the park. ;) (thats far far far far far worse than putting horsecollars on Blue Streak and Gemini)

Its funny how times change...wasn't it just a few years ago that the biggest threat to the coaster crown was Blackpoole Pleasure Beach?

This topic is gonig to be closed, but I have to say this.

Superman: The Escape IS a roller coaster. Why isn't it one? It's just a normal shuttle coaster. Just like old Arrow shuttles, or Mr. Freeze. No one debates that these are coasters, so why Superman? Just because it doesn't have an inversion? What if Superman had a loop in the middle? Then would it be a coaster? If so, then your rule is a shuttle coaster has to have inversions? Explain.

It has a car, it has LIM/LSM boosters, it has track, just like many other coasters.

CeDaRPoInTzTeR - Don't be a wise guy saying a shopping cart and a wooden board is a coater because that is what Superman basically is. You're just a CP fanboy.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Raptor [/i]
[B]

1. For Demon Drop to be considered a coaster, then your back would have to be perpendicular to the track, not parrell like it is. Besides, if every other park with a 1st gen Intamin freefall doesn't consider them coasters, why should CP? Also, SFMM has the exact same ride, and they don't consider it a coaster either.

2. Shuttle coasters DO qualify as coasters by definition(barely, however). If S:TE wasn't considered a coaster, than no impulse, boomerang, or shuttle loop, would be either. [/B][/QUOTE]
Now for #1 that would eliminate X FLIGHT and all other Flying coasters on X-FLIGHT your back is parrallel to the track. and if shuttles are not included then SUE and V2 and all the other clones are not coasters as well. And then where does that leve X at times your back is perpindicular to the track others its parrallell and alot of times somewhere inbetween.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kraxleRIDAH [/i]
[B]

Well considering the fact that the Flying Dutchmen do have you in a sitting upright positon in the station...Most people that are arguing on this thread don't even know how either rides work so they shouldn't be typing any bull*****. [/B][/QUOTE]
Well we are back to Demon Drop at the beginning of the ride your back is perpindicular to the track. So Jim explain your logic.

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CP is intitled to their own opinoin so who really cares

lets just shoot demon drop backwards and CP will tie Magic Mountain for coasters

Are you dumb? Demon Drop's station is under the "U" part of the ride. Second of all, there are no LIMS or LSMS, third, you don't know what you're talking about and made an idiot out of yourself.