I simply despise Arrow dynamic coasters. They couldn't design a smooth ride if their life depended on it. It's almost like a computer game. Now follow me people:
<BR>It seems that they have three different slopes of hills such as Rollercoaster Tycoon.
<BR>They seem to have certain degrees of banked turns and the same sized loops, just on stilts. Other coaster companies have custom built elements that make for a smooth ride, but Arrow is just over the hill. Their technology was fine 15 years ago, but things change, and B&M is wiping the floor with them. Also, I'm not looking too forward to this 4th dimension coaster. It will be the same drill. Good idea, but small flaws like terrible layouts, terrible restraint design, and roughness will plague this thing for many years. Reply if you agree with what I'm preaching, or just argue a point...also, mention if you have EVER ridden a smooth Arrow coaster in your life. Thanks! <BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: boardadmin on 2001-07-14 16:46 ]</font>

But you have to take this into consideration-
<BR>
<BR>In Arrow's glory days, they practially used pen and paper do design and concept all their new coaster designs. Now, we use computers for every step of the concepting and design process. Hopefully Arrow has since jumped on the bandwagon, and started to use this wonderful technology age we live in.
<BR>
<BR>By the way, I found the Corkscrew @ CP and the Shockwave @ SFGAM to be quite smooth.

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Excellent point SIM, I hope that Arrows coasters improve because they have a nasty rep right now. Not worse than TOGO however!

oh i know. Scream machine makes me ache and they are kinda lazy with the designs. Togo still is worse though.

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I have just relized how bad arrow runaway trains are. The stupid restraints hurt my legs like crazy

I've found Magnum XL-200 to be very smooth.

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I have never had a big problem in an Arrow looper--including multiple rerides SFGAM's ShockWave. I pick my feet up off the floor and lean into the harness.
<BR>
<BR>The only Arrow tht has ever really smacked me around is VF's Excalibur--which has more to do with its layout than anything else.
<BR>
<BR>On the other hand, Curtis Summers/Dinn creations have always been abusive.....
<BR>
<BR>-CPlaya
<BR>

Viper at SFMM was smooth and I don't see why you have a huge problem with Arrow's designs. Afterall the parks get to decide what they want in that coaster and how much land to designate for the ride.

It's not so much the design that's flawed, it's they're inversions. I mean come on people, who doesn't love Magnum XL-200? It's a great ride and it's one of the smoother Arrow coaster becuase it doesn't have inversions. Arrow's main problem is corkscrews, but like someone said above, technology has advanced and Arrow might have improved. I guess we'll just have to wait for X to come out and see...

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They couldn't design a smooth ride if their life depended on it? I doubt that. I heard a lot of good things about the Tennesse Tornado, and how smooth it is. This was thier first major coaster in years, and 10+ years ago, computer technology was very pathetic compared to now. It could not handle coaster designing, so Arrow had to do every calculation by hand, draw up the coaster by hand, do everything by hand! Don't blame them for being rough, blame computers that were slow! And I doubt the 4th Dimention will be a rough ride. If it is, Arrow will die a slow painful death. Anyways, I can almost guarentee that it is smooth. Computers had to have been used in it's design, with so many variables, they would have takes 50 years to design it by hand!

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Deja Vu & V2, can life get any better? Add Viper!!! ...uh... wait. It's already there! ROCK ON SFGAm!

I believe that Arrow will make a comeback. It started at Dollywood. Now that X is coming out I only see good things for this company. When will a park finally build an ArrowBATic?

Arrow could restore its reputation and lustre overnight if if could replace those infernal over-the-shoulder ear bangers with lap bars, a la Anton, or B&M's clamshell.
<BR>
<BR>There's nothing wrong with roughness, per se; it's a legitimate and time-honored way to up the thrill-ante. Just think of any good wooden coaster. Rough equals scary equals thrills. But there is no excuse for head-banging (and yes, TOGO is the worst).
<BR>
<BR>I've always been a fan of Arrow coasters.

At a park dominated by two B&M loopers, (Riddlers and Batman) Viper at SFMM still stands tall and brings out the best to challenge it.

Speaking of Arrow. I remember seeing about a coaster back in the early 90's that they were developing, where you sit between the tracks. This was similar to a Togo coaster, but they planned on having drops while you twist, etc.
<BR>
<BR>I saw that they had about 1/3 of a coaster built and tested, but I never heard anything else about it.
<BR>
<BR>Did they ever finish it?

Yes, Arrow loopers are rough, but if B&M had built mega-loopers 15 or 20 years ago, I think they would be rough too. I have never found MAGNUM or GEMINI rough, because they have no inversions.
<BR>
<BR>I believe that Arrow is poised to make a huge comeback, with X and the Arrowbatic in their arsenal - it will all hinge on how things go at SFMM.
<BR>
<BR>As far as the experimental design that they were worklingon a decade ago, called the Pipeline, what I always heard was that they could not get a proper lift system working, and that the cost of the thing made it impractical to put in parks, and the whole thing was scrapped. If anyone has better info, I'd be interested in knowing about it.
<BR>

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<BR>
<BR>JLY

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<BR>On 2001-05-05 14:11, ChrisFL wrote:
<BR>Speaking of Arrow. I remember seeing about a coaster back in the early 90's that they were developing, where you sit between the tracks. This was similar to a Togo coaster, but they planned on having drops while you twist, etc.
<BR>
<BR>I saw that they had about 1/3 of a coaster built and tested, but I never heard anything else about it.
<BR>
<BR>Did they ever finish it?
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<BR>No, they never did finish it. They had the prototype up and running and everyone who rode it said it was one of the most thrilling, unique rides ever, but the fact remained that the ride was plainly too expensive for parks to buy. Maybe after Arrows comeback with X they'll try it again, along with (hopefully) the Arrowbatic coaster.

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A duck's quack doesn't echo. No one know's why. Just thought I'd let you know.

I take it back that ALL Arrow coasters are rough. Gemini is VERY smooth. However, I rode Magnum for the first time last year and it was very rough!<BR><BR><font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: slipknot8527 on 2001-05-05 15:01 ]</font>

Arrow the worst? Second maybe. I'm sure many of you out there have ridden some of Vekomas SLC's or "hang and bangs"! I would have to give them the award for the ability to truly make my head spin!

I have founs SLCs to be very smooth...however, the Vekoma designed Ninga at my homepark (SFOG) is the roughest ride I have ever ridden!

Arrow is not a bad company.

like already stated if you were trying to build a Rollercoaster and had to do everything by hand of course there is going to be some mis-calculations.
<BR>
<BR>Now Arrow and every other coaster company out there are using Super computers to calculate the numbers so there shouldn't be any reason for a rough coaster now days.
<BR>
<BR>Viper at SFMM is no where near as rough as the other Arrow mega loopers that I have been on. Arrow did a great job with Viper and there doing an even better job with X.
<BR>
<BR>Arrow has completly changed there is no more one sized inversion for every coaster they design. If you look at the TT at Dollywood then you would see the dramtic changes in the Arrow design.
<BR>
<BR>The new Arrow coaster Wheels assembly is just like the B&M to where the Wheels stay in contact with the track at all times. That was the main reason Arrow rides was so rough was b/c of the wheels not connected to the track at all times causing banging when entering the bad transitions.
<BR>
<BR>Anyways X will be Arrows big come back b/c it will be a total hit. Arrow has put so much time and effort into the design of the 4d that it would be impossible for it not to work.
<BR>
<BR>SFMM also wouldn't of took on a project like this if they had any doubt in thier minds that X wasn't going to work how it's suppose to. I don't think After the Superman TE episode that they would risk it with X.

Arrow knows the mistakes that they have made, and a lot of their looping coaster technology has been around since the mid 70's, but look at the reviews of the performance of the new chassis on dollywoods coaster. I have read in reviews that it has a roar similar to a B&M with similar smoothness. They are taking leaps and bounds in the right direction. All they need to do now is to develop a coaster design with four seats in a row like the B&M's (I know that X has 4 seats). All of the bigs parks that will give them business want to have coasters with a high "rider per hour" number to keep lines moving.

Yeah, 4-across seating on an Arrow would be good. They just gotta make it comfy, like a B&M

Gotta love those B&M Seats, i need one in my living room for watchin' tv

I'm expecting great things to come out of Arrow. I agree on the loopers that they can be rough. The Demon at PGA was real rough one year and tame the next. I think it had to do with speed. The loops almost broke my neck. They slowed it down and it is pleasureable to ride again.
<BR>
<BR>I am totaly looking forward to the Arrowbatic and X. I just hope that the rotations on X are tame. Too many and you'll see my lunch a few times

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Let's just hope that X will be nice and smooth and safe for all.

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Arrow has gotten quite the bad rep, but I think some of the problems lie in maintenence of the coasters too. Some of the older coasters like Loch Ness Monster and Anaconda were very smooth in their day but with age comes the roughness. I blame poor upkeep. I think Steel Phantom was rather smooth except for the 80 mph turn at the bottom of the canyon which could bust you up if you weren't braced for it.

It's a great hobby to bash Arrow coasters, but it's one that seems to ignore a lot of things:
<BR>
<BR>One, not anywhere near all Arrows are rough. SFMM's Viper is smooth. Magnum still gets very high regards. Gemini, GASM and others all often get high praise. Arrow coasters are still often well liked and praised by a great number of people.
<BR>
<BR>The design era, with lack of computer tech available to most of Arrow's designs versus the abundance of it available for B&M has already been discussed, so I'll leave that alone.
<BR>
<BR>But there is also one other area to consider- the overall age of the coaster. Many of Arrow's coasters are over 15-20 years old. With the elements hitting them, and in many cases poor maintainance (something that Arrow can't do anything about), they tend to age and roughen up. Since B&M hasn't even hit the 10 year mark (unless I'm missing something, which is possible) then it's not even fair to compare them yet. Wait and see how the B&M's age, and then we'll have a better idea.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

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Ok, let me speak from experience. I've rode old Arrow and I've rode new and I know the difference.
<BR>
<BR>Arrow's old technology is exactly that, old. What do you expect out of a coaster that's 10 or more years old?
<BR>
<BR>Loch Ness Monster is a wonderful coaster! I absolutely loved it when i got the chance to ride it this summer but it's old and it did hurt! It was designed for the public of the 70's not the 21st Century.
<BR>
<BR>I have also ridden the Tennessee Tornado several times. It is one of my home parks and i am there atleast once a month.
<BR>
<BR>I would hazard a guess that I could take any of you who have never ridden it, blindfold you, take you there without knowing where you were, and let you ride it. I'd say if it weren't for the 2 seater trains, a good 95% of you would sware you'd just rode a B&M.
<BR>
<BR>This thing is smooth, fast, quiet, and has elements on it that Arrow would have never dreamed of 10 years ago.
<BR>
<BR>The first loop is 110 ft people and it starts at ground level. It's fast and furious and a real hoot to ride!
<BR>
<BR>I believe that we can all agree by this fact alone that Arrow is definately on the rise again after the most horrid Huss venture.
<BR>
<BR>Now LEAVE ARROW BE! Let the ppl prove themselves. Give them about 5 years and you all will be lauding Arrow as one of the best again.
<BR>
<BR>I'd venture a guess that in 10 years that one of the companies that everone has gone ga-ga over will not even be here. I mean for goodness sakes Giovinola didn't even build coasters till Goliath.

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CoasterTal,
<BR>
<BR>Flying over metal is a beautiful thing!

First, we must appreciate Arrow for what it did to change the face of amusement rides. It introduce the first tubular steel track coaster, built almost all the old rides in Disneyland, invented log flumes and shoot-the-chute...... Could Walter E. Disney achieve the success of Disney amusement business without Arrow, me not think so.
<BR>
<BR>Second, Arrow's bad days began when B&M becomes the king of loopers and Morgan (which was founded by Arrow's founder's son) started stealing it's hyper business. Facing the challenge, Arrow didn't not much to improve, so it fell all the way to the bottom. However in late 90's, it did came out with a surprisingly 'B&Mish' looper, namely Tennessee Tornado. However, the problem with Arrow in late 90's is it's reluctance to pull enough new rides from paper into reality. Right now, with 4th Dimension and Arrowbatic, Arrow has a good chance to restart.
<BR>
<BR>I am satisfied with B&M and Intamin's quality, but I still want to see more variety.
<BR>
<BR>By the way, the main reason why B&M, Intamin and Giovanola are so smooth is that the wheel assemble can actually rotate around the vertical axis. If you ride front row of a B&M, you can see the 2 big disc shape turntable which the wheel assembly is sitting on.
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