I thought of this during a physics lesson-
One day coasters are going to be so high they get to the point where the trains reach terminal velocity, they cant get any faster because the pull of gravity will equal the firction of the wheels rolling and the air resistance. I will try to work out how high a coaster would have to be to reach terminal velocity.
The only way to make them faster will be launching, the power of launching can increase the power of gravity potentialy. I think one day a launch will be added to a drop to reach a higher speed.
If a coaster did reach terminal velocity a massive first hill could be folowed by a tiny(in comparrison) second hill because during the drop the train would reach terminal velocity, therefore not getting any more power to pull itself up the next hill.
What do you think??? :sick:

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yes, but thats a bit simplistic:

Tv will vary depending on conditions and weight and shape of the riders.

The height will have to be huge, probably exceding 600ft. The stress on the track and wheels would be massive (but not impossible to build a ride strong enough - just expensive).

Making the train more aerodynamic could improve the speed a lot.

Probably the riders couldn't stand much more than 120mph. I haven't ridden TTD yet, but assume it has wind deflecters at the front...These will only work up to a point, and then they would have to enclose it.

Your'll never work out the height and speed that it'll reach...too many assumptions. How would you work out the average surface area each train for example?

Any result you work out would be so inaccurate it would be pointless.

I could do it, but I would have to use an exsting coaster type eg.Top Thrill Dragster. If I had the hight of drop (420ft) average time the drop takes (not sure)speed diffrence(120mph)
The acceleration due to gravity is 10 m/s2 every second.
So say if the drop took 5 second the speed, with no resistance, would be 50m/s which 112 mph. If the actual sped was 110.8 then 1 percent of the speed is taken away by resistance. Ok, now I loose touch. What im trying to say is if we could work out the stats of the 420ft high TTD in relation to resistance we could work out the stats of a Xft high TTD and what Xft high would be terminal velocity.

Syke- what you where saying about not being able to take more than 120 mph, actualy you proably couldnt take more than the [I]acceleration[/I] that TTD uses to get to 120mph. During a drop there are no acceleration g's because of, because of some physical thing I cant remeber. Anyway launch-g's drop- no g's
constant speed - no g's, ie when your in a plane going faster than any coaster you do not feel yourself being pushed back into the seat when your in the air because you are not accelerating. During a drop you are accelerating but as it is due to gravity there are no g's, therefore giving you drop airtime.
You could make a launch faster than 120mph but you would have to have the same or less acceleration over a longer time, TTD is 30mph per second, the acceleration g's would be more prosponed but would give the same or less force.

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[QUOTE=Kristafon4]I could do it, but I would have to use an exsting coaster type eg.Top Thrill Dragster. If I had the hight of drop (420ft) average time the drop takes (not sure)speed diffrence(120mph)
The acceleration due to gravity is 10 m/s2 every second.
So say if the drop took 5 second the speed, with no resistance, would be 50m/s which 112 mph. If the actual sped was 110.8 then 1 percent of the speed is taken away by resistance. Ok, now I loose touch. What im trying to say is if we could work out the stats of the 420ft high TTD in relation to resistance we could work out the stats of a Xft high TTD and what Xft high would be terminal velocity.

Syke- what you where saying about not being able to take more than 120 mph, actualy you proably couldnt take more than the [I]acceleration[/I] that TTD uses to get to 120mph. During a drop there are no acceleration g's because of, because of some physical thing I cant remeber. Anyway launch-g's drop- no g's
constant speed - no g's, ie when your in a plane going faster than any coaster you do not feel yourself being pushed back into the seat when your in the air because you are not accelerating. During a drop you are accelerating but as it is due to gravity there are no g's, therefore giving you drop airtime.
You could make a launch faster than 120mph but you would have to have the same or less acceleration over a longer time, TTD is 30mph per second, the acceleration g's would be more prosponed but would give the same or less force.[/QUOTE]


Good point about it not accelarating anymore after TV, but thats not quite what i meant: I meant that the force of the air over the train would be uncomfortable, at any high speed, accelarating or not.

If the TV was 150mph (for example), the air resistance would hurt. It dosn't matter your not accelarating - your still moving, and the air is standing still (sort of).

Again, about the stress, i realise its not going to get any faster, but at 150mph over time would affect the trains.
(faster speed= bigger wheels)

Not sure what you mean about the launch. Of course the TV can be exceeded with enough power applied. Maybe Tdd already does? (actually unlikely, it's not that fast).

About working out the speed, you have to work the air resistance, to do that you need the area of the front of the train, and really you need to take into account funny shapes (turbulence behind the seats). You also need the friction coefficient. (you can work that out but it's too complicated for me - good luck!)
You also need an accurate weight of the train.
You also need the friction of the track.

So you have to assume:

Area (air friction)
Weight
rolling resistance
Temperature
Take aerodynamics into account (trains aren't a simple shape, like cars)

Keep in mind that 700ft tall roller coaster they planned for Las Vegas, it's top speed was said to be 120mph, which suggests that 120mph is terminal velocity for most roller coasters. However, that is just on a drop, coasters could still be launched faster than 120mph.

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well it'll depend on the design. 120mph is usually for people so for a coaster that is just a coincidence....I would have thought a coaster train would be be faster since it has a much much higher mass, but is still very streamlined for it's size.

oy vey, I'm in my first year of physics in HS and this is all very confusing and frightening... :sadface: :confused: :sick:

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I think it would be pretty much impossible just because of the costs involved. It would be hugely expensive.

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[QUOTE=PANTSFREE]oy vey, I'm in my first year of physics in HS and this is all very confusing and frightening... :sadface: :confused: :sick:[/QUOTE]


don't worry, this is probably higher level than that. Your high school is 16/17?

THis sounds very interesting, though dont even worry about it now becuase youll be long gone before any of this happens!!!

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[QUOTE=Kristafon4]Syke- what you where saying about not being able to take more than 120 mph, actualy you proably couldnt take more than the [I]acceleration[/I] that TTD uses to get to 120mph. During a drop there are no acceleration g's because of, because of some physical thing I cant remeber. Anyway launch-g's drop- no g's
constant speed - no g's, ie when your in a plane going faster than any coaster you do not feel yourself being pushed back into the seat when your in the air because you are not accelerating. During a drop you are accelerating but as it is due to gravity there are no g's, therefore giving you drop airtime.
You could make a launch faster than 120mph but you would have to have the same or less acceleration over a longer time, TTD is 30mph per second, the acceleration g's would be more prosponed but would give the same or less force.[/QUOTE]

There are no positive Gs on a drop, but there are negative Gs. Besides, it doesnt matter how little you are accelerating. If you have wind in your face and that wind is going 150+mph, it may hurt. Think about riding in the rain. I mean, you might as well put on some kevlar, and even then there'd be dents left.
^exageration

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Terminal velocity doesn't fluctuate that easy.....Drop a huge boulder and a little stone off a bridge at the same height and same time and they'll hit the water at the same time. My dad was telling me about this yesterday. Most humans (fat or skinny) have the same density, the same matter that makes them up, so a baby's TV is the same as a 500 pound adult's TV, it goes by density, not weight (and to what I know, coaster trains are made from the same material(s)-means same density). If we went by weight, roller coasters would exert different g forces on each individual person. Remember, wind resistance causes terminal velocity, terminal velocity is reached during freefall only. Wind resistance also keeps a big heavy object from falling faster than a small, light object. Accordingly, I have a link for you to read up on it. There is a universal TV, and it WILL probably be reached somewhere in the near future.

[URL=http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html]CLICK HERE[/URL] there are tutorials near the bottom of the page.

[QUOTE=meowcoaster1]Terminal velocity doesn't fluctuate that easy.....Drop a huge boulder and a little stone off a bridge at the same height and same time and they'll hit the water at the same time. My dad was telling me about this yesterday. Most humans (fat or skinny) have the same density, the same matter that makes them up, so a baby's TV is the same as a 500 pound adult's TV, it goes by density, not weight (and to what I know, coaster trains are made from the same material(s)-means same density). If we went by weight, roller coasters would exert different g forces on each individual person. Remember, wind resistance causes terminal velocity, terminal velocity is reached during freefall only. Wind resistance also keeps a big heavy object from falling faster than a small, light object. Accordingly, I have a link for you to read up on it. There is a universal TV, and it WILL probably be reached somewhere in the near future.

[URL=http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html]CLICK HERE[/URL] there are tutorials near the bottom of the page.[/QUOTE]




the bigger person will have a larger surface area, so more air resistance. And also a higher mass.

Don't see how the density affects it. I see that it will be the same but surely MASS will be more important?

If all objects fall at the same rate without air, vary the surface area (and resistance) and the acceleration will vary, and so will the TV.

They only hit at the same time because the acceleration is the same.

My solution: make a coaster in a big ass vacuum with gas masks. I win.

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[QUOTE=BimmerZ3]My solution: make a coaster in a big ass vacuum with gas masks. I win.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is the best idea.

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Terminal velocity can't be determined at this point as we don't know the variables, 1 the friction of the wheels, 2 the drag or wind coefficient (sp), 3 the weight or density of the coaster car... Remember technology is getting better everyday and I wouldn't be surprised if some day someone designs a coaster that actually levitates over the track, thus no friction on the wheels... Other things can change quickly...

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I'm sure that type of ride will be made once there is enough money to pay for it. I don't see it being hard to transfer the technology from a train to a roller coaster.

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I HAVE AN IDEA!!! Leave it to the professionals....they know what they are doing so let them do it. Who cares...stop trying to be smart...

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I don't care what terminal velocity is. Going 123 miles an hour on TTD was enough for me. I could barely breathe after getting off the damn thing. Then again, I'm 25 and getting older.

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[QUOTE=coaster9freak]I HAVE AN IDEA!!! Leave it to the professionals....they know what they are doing so let them do it. Who cares...stop trying to be smart...[/QUOTE]You're just jealous because you don't understand a word they are saying. ;)

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[QUOTE=coasterphil]You're just jealous because you don't understand a word they are saying. ;)[/QUOTE]

Coasterfreak got owned :D

JK. But leaving it to the profs is a good idea. Actually, saying what parks [I]should[/I] do comparing to what they will, well it's pointless, that is, unless your writing for a sugg. box.

Actually phil is right...I don't know what they are saying. If I did I probably wouldn't argue it anyway...It's stupid to argue over something that won't have an effect on the thoughts of the designers at all since they probably already know terminal velocity.

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