I recently went on the Dollywood and Holiday World websites and saw they have greatly exaggerated the max speed of some of their coasters by 10 mph! Dollywood states Tennesse Tornado as 70 mph while Holiday World says Legend has a top speed of 65 mph. I read that T.T is only 63 mph and that Legend is only 58 mph. They also mildy exaggerated Raven at 50+ mph while it is only 48 mph. It's confusing and gives people the wrong information. I also saw Hades advertised at 70 mph speeds and has a height of 160 ft. It makes me laugh that parks exaggerate the height also.

[quote=coastermaniac85]I recently went on the Dollywood and Holiday World websites and saw they have greatly exaggerated the max speed of some of their coasters by 10 mph! Dollywood states Tennesse Tornado as 70 mph while Holiday World says Legend has a top speed of 65 mph. I read that T.T is only 63 mph and that Legend is only 58 mph. They also mildy exaggerated Raven at 50+ mph while it is only 48 mph. It's confusing and gives people the wrong information.[/quote]

Probably because those coasters might run a couple more mph sometimes so why not advertise as such?

[quote=vampiredabest]Probably because those coasters might run a couple more mph sometimes so why not advertise as such?[/quote]

They can go up to 8 mph faster?

Just to piss you off at 2 in the morning ;)

Oh, and since I think this spawned from the height of voyage question you asked in the other thread, to save myself and others time, the reason voyage's drop may be noted as different values is because the land gently slopes down going away from the station (or so I thought....)

Anyhow, don't stress. It's just marketing quirks (just look at Goliath @ SFOG, the park says its over 200 feet tall). I mean, how much do stats really matter in the end? Is it going to change your perception of the ride? I'd hope not.

One Word: Attendance. Plain and simple. The more attractive the ride, the more likely you are to go there. Rounding up the numbers just makes it presentable. A few feet of exaggeration or a few mph doesn't matter, because most coasters feel taller and faster than they really are.

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Some of the smaller parks (even the large ones) tend to bend the facts a little to make the rides appear on paper, much more thrilling and pushing the "bigger, faster, and badder" approach to coasters these past few years. A ride may go 62 mph, but some parks will round it off and advertise it at 65 mph or even as far as saying 70 mph to "sweeten" up the ride's image to potential park goers. Nitro at Great Adventure does not go 80 mph, but is actually a few miles per hour shy of it (around 77-78 mph), but why say 77 mph if you can may the ride sound faster by saying it goes 80 mph for a potential thrillseeking customer's point of view? 80 mph to me, sounds a lot faster than 77 mph, even though it's a few mph difference. Why do you think items at grocery stores are a penny shy of a dollar? It's all numbers and perceptual psychology. A $4.99 item will always subconsiously feel cheaper than a $5.00 one.

[QUOTE=coastermaniac85]Why do parks exaggerate their coasters?[/QUOTE]To get more people to the park, and therefore more income. That's the only reason. Bryan mentioned it already. No one is going to measure the speed of a ride, so if a park says 70 mph than the general public thinks 70 mph.

EDIT: and what Chris is saying about the psychological effect of numbers by their first one or two digits is absolutely true.

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[QUOTE=BobFunland]
Anyhow, don't stress. It's just marketing quirks (just look at Goliath @ SFOG, the park says its over 200 feet tall). I mean, how much do stats really matter in the end? Is it going to change your perception of the ride? I'd hope not.[/QUOTE]

Makes sense. The amusement venues have a vested interest in these attractions, so of course they're going to build them up. They are indeed a corporate marketing department, that is their job.

Same goes for accidents aboard these very same attractions, when is the last time you heard a PR rep indicate publically that a ride is unsafe? How good would that be for business? Same goes for the building up of attractions - have to draw the paying public through the gates not draw them away.
Good post, Bobfunland.

That's tough...TO ATTRACT PEOPLE MAYBE?...just a thought.

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The opposite phenomenon is evident for Top Gun [PC]. The park advertises the speed as 62 mph, but the ride actually runs a little faster.

I guess the park makes up for this inaccuracy by advertising that the vekoma flying dutchman has 8 inversions...

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Parks want to really to hook the members of the GP with exagerrated facts because they make up the majority, the cash cow. The GP does not know these things that we enthusiasts know as particulars. Some of the advertisements park create make some of us enthusiasts say: "Give me a break."

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[QUOTE=Cephas]The opposite phenomenon is evident for Top Gun [PC]. The park advertises the speed as 62 mph, but the ride actually runs at least 5 mph faster.

I guess the park makes up for this inaccuracy by advertising that the vekoma flying dutchman has 8 inversions...[/QUOTE]

Top Gun doesn't even reach speeds close to 62 mph. THAT in itself is an exaggeration. There is no physical way in hell you can get an inverted coaster train to reach speeds of 62-67 mph with a lift hill and drop below 120-feet. Alpengeist, with a 170+ first drop, reaches 67 mph and you are saying Top Gun at Carowinds can achieve the same speeds with a drop under 110-feet in height? DON'T THINK SO!

Nice to see one of the fools that run the ASO does post on the boards. He even mentioned accidents in his post and does have a valid point for once.

It is just marketing that Park A states that their inverted coaster goes X mph and Coaster B has eight inversions. It is to make the GP want to come to the park and ride the 62 mph inverted or take a spin on the eight inversion flyer. The only people that seem to really care if a park is bending the stats is us.

And if it seems to bother some people that much, then get over it and just enjoy the park.

[quote=Chris L]Top Gun doesn't even reach speeds close to 62 mph. THAT in itself is an exaggeration. There is no physical way in hell you can get an inverted coaster train to reach speeds of 62-67 mph with a lift hill and drop below 120-feet. Alpengeist, with a 170+ first drop, reaches 67 mph and you are saying Top Gun at Carowinds can achieve the same speeds with a drop under 110-feet in height? DON'T THINK SO![/quote]

First TG is in reality higher then it seems, its last footer is placed at the top of a mini hill, which makes it shorter. Second by the time TG was built, B&M had byfar improved the space drop (compared to coaster built earlier). I do believe that TG goes 62MPH, considering the drop is more then what is on paper, and then there is the trench before the loop. The space drop is tighter and faster then any before it and a huge improvement to the 92,93, and even 95/96 inverts.

-i don't think it can reach Alpengeist speeds but it can most likely reach 61-62 mph speeds

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[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf^2=Vi^2+2ad[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf = final velocity, speed at bottom of drop, unknown[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vi = speed at top of hill, I’ll say 6mph/2.7 m/s from the chain[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]A = acceleration from gravity, 9.8 m/s[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]D = drop height, 120ft/36.58m[/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf^2 = 2.7^2 + 2(9.8)(36.58)[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf^2 = 724.258[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf = 26.91 m/s or [B]61 mph [/B][/SIZE][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]It would be possible for Top Gun to reach speeds of 61-62 mph under the perfect conditions [almost no friction/air resistance], but I see that anything beyond that is physically impossible. I guess I was wrong...[/SIZE][/FONT]

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Well, I know that SheiKra runs at 73mph when they advertise it at 70...

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Edit: SheiKra

You need to get out more Cephas.

I'm not saying rcdb is right all the time, but they have it listed as 62mph.

Sheikra, Sheikra's top speed is 70, not 73. I dunno where you guys are getting this info from. As for the Top Gun thing, there is no way a coaster 120 feet tall (Top Gun) can go just as fast as a 170 foot tall coaster (Alpengist) built by the same company.

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^ Trust me, SheiKra does 73 on a fairly regular basis. They just don't advertise it. 70 is what they prmote it as doing.

How does he know? Well, based on the fact that he works on the ride, and has been there since day 1... And as a fellow BGT employee, I can vouch that what he's saying is most certainly correct.

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its not that Alpengeist and TG go the same speed
its that TG has the possibility to go 62 MPH under ideal conditions, so they can advertise that as a maximum speed. It may actually go 58-60. Alpengeist is advertised more then 10MPH above that, so i don't know why people are arguing about that.

TG does have one of the more defined/steep space drops of its time, especially in consideration to earlier B&M inverts. I don't think by any means does anyone suggest however that TG could go faster then Alpengeist.

But as for the space drops:
Alpengeist: [URL="http://www.rcdb.com/ig277.htm?picture=12"]http://www.rcdb.com/ig277.htm?picture=12[/URL]
Batman the Ride: [URL="http://www.vagabondsalvage.com/grtadv/6fga10.jpg"]http://www.vagabondsalvage.com/grtadv/6fga10.jpg[/URL]
Top Gun Carowinds: [URL="http://www.carowindsconnection.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=29&pos=-20"]http://www.carowindsconnection.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=random&cat=29&pos=-20[/URL]

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I'll agree, there was quite a bit of evolution between TG's space drop and earlier drops. [Raptor Especially]. TG's drop most efficiently utilizes the potential energy of the ride.

[quote] You need to get out more Cephas.
[/quote]

Is there something wrong with paying attention in physics? Thanks for contributing to the thread.

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[QUOTE=Cephas][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Vf^2=Vi^2+2ad[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

For a 113-ft height off the ground which is what Top Gun is listed, the maximum speed you'll get out of that is just over 58 MPH, using that kinematic equation you stated above -- but again that is without any air resistance and track friction, which depend on the mass and design of the train. With those factors, the train's energy is not conserved; as a result, because the train goes down an inclined drop rather than a vertical drop, the resistance will moderate the maximum speed down even slower.

So even 58 MPH is out of reach for Top Gun. Unless there are instances in the summer where the air temperature might be so hot that the expansion of the track allow for faster-than-normal speeds.

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[QUOTE=Chris L]Some of the smaller parks (even the large ones) tend to bend the facts a little to make the rides appear on paper, much more thrilling and pushing the "bigger, faster, and badder" approach to coasters these past few years. A ride may go 62 mph, but some parks will round it off and advertise it at 65 mph or even as far as saying 70 mph to "sweeten" up the ride's image to potential park goers. Nitro at Great Adventure does not go 80 mph, but is actually a few miles per hour shy of it (around 77-78 mph), but why say 77 mph if you can may the ride sound faster by saying it goes 80 mph for a potential thrillseeking customer's point of view? 80 mph to me, sounds a lot faster than 77 mph, even though it's a few mph difference. Why do you think items at grocery stores are a penny shy of a dollar? It's all numbers and perceptual psychology. A $4.99 item will always subconsiously feel cheaper than a $5.00 one.[/QUOTE]

Yep....our .99 cent Icee's at our Ice Cream store really aren't .99 cents. They're 1.07......(with Tax)

If it was 1.00 the three digits make it sound expensive. Most of our products are not closely rounded off because our prices are really simple since our store has been operating since 1966, but the Icee's are a big hit with kids. They walk in thinking its pocket change...when it in reality is a dollar.

Its easy to understand. McDonald's "dollar menu" sounds cheap. But get like 2-3 burgers, fries, and a drink and you got the cost of a normal meal. The 2-3 burgers may be exaggerated....but the dollar menu burgers are those I could proabobly mac through.

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[QUOTE=Cephas]



Is there something wrong with paying attention in physics? Thanks for contributing to the thread.[/QUOTE]

Glad I could contribute to this wonderful thread about your great ability to use Physics in attempting to prove that a coaster goes X speed. But does it really matter if it does or does not go that fast? Bet you will lose sleep over it. Just enjoy the ride another weekend.

Well, since the thread was talking about posted speeds of coasters vs. how fast they actually go, yes it was a very appropriate post to make. His ability? No. Looks to me like it's simply using a bit of science that anyone who paid a bit of attention in school could have done. Really Dave, no reason to get rude about it- not the first time, nor the second.

Cephas- for my part, thanks for taking the time to explain some of the hows and whys of coasters and how fast they go, and don't worry about those that don't care for it. There are far more that take interest in it and appreciate the opportunity to learn a bit.

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[quote]For a 113-ft height off the ground which is what Top Gun is listed, the maximum speed you'll get out of that is just over 58 MPH, using that kinematic equation you stated above -- but again that is without any air resistance and track friction, which depend on the mass and design of the train. With those factors, the train's energy is not conserved; as a result, because the train goes down an inclined drop rather than a vertical drop, the resistance will moderate the maximum speed down even slower.[/quote]
It may be true that Top Gun's speed ideally increases 58 mph going down the first drop, but one must also factor in the speed given to the ride by the lift hill. From no limits, I would believe that a Beemer's chain moves at 5 mph. Adding this initial speed to the 58 mph will give you a possible speed of at least 62 mph.

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the drop is not 113 feet either, the height may be posted as 113, but the actual drop of the coaster is more - because it goes down into land of lower elevation. Add in the lift chain, and you get the extra few miles per hour we've been talking about. Top Gun's actual drop is estimated at almost 120 feet by some sources.. although i have yet to see an official drop count. Some drop counts call it 125 feet, but for the amount of times i've ridden it - a lot I promise you, and the look of elevation, that seems a stretch... but i assure you the drop is approaching 120 feet.

The elevation around Top Gun is another issue - the fact that the last footer is placed on a mini hill skews the actual ride height to be less then it truly is.

And then there's the issue of the space drop, which i posted earlier. Top Gun has one of the most defined/streamlined space drops of its time, which is why it is faster then Raptor or similar coasters which are taller but slower.

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Actually Cephas, the 58 MPH speed without friction/resistance already factors in the 6 MPH initial lift speed -- that is assuming the drop height is the same as the lift of 113 feet, which I'm not sure.

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Ok, I see now.

The drop is more than 113 ft though, and I doubt an accurate measurement of it exists anywhere besides B&M's blueprints. I guess we'll never know...

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^ You are right in that the ideal speed of Top Gun is far from accurate from the actual speed, which does vary slightly day-by-day. If it gets hot enough at Carowinds during the summer, that can help boost the speed up even more than normal due to the expanding of the track.

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