can anyone show me what a flat spin looks like in a picture cuase I know what a corkscrew and a zero-g-roll are but I have no idea what a flat spin is

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A flat spin is what B&M calls just 1 corkcrew. Here's a pic:

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to me in that picture it looks like it is half inline twit half corkscrew. its hard to see that the actual train does infact go up .

There is more of a difference than in the name. A corkscrew has the same radius throughout the entire inversion. Ex: Arrow's double corkscrew. A B&M flat spin has a radius that gets tighter as you enter the inversion, and then loosens as you exit the inversion. That is what causes that quick "flip" feeling on a flat spin, as opposed to Arrow's consistent corkscrew inversion. Ex: Batman Knight Flight's interlocking flat spins.

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Island you have no clue what you are talking about. BKF just has normal corkscrews, those are not flatspins.

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There is no difference. If you don't know by now, B&M likes to give fancy names to elements (see - horizontal loops for a helix, flat spin for a corkscrew, etc.)...there is absolutely no difference between a flat spin and corkscrew.

Thank you Coaster131 for clearing that up. I was pretty sure it was just a fancy name, but I wanted to make sure.

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I believe flat spin is what B&M calls it's inverteds' corkscrew.

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i think a flat spin is the same thing as a barrel roll or zero g roll.

Flat Spin: B&M's name for a corkscrew on a regular coaster. On an Inverted Coaster, the element is called a "Wongover".

actually islands was right. It is not just a corkscrew....if you have ever been throuh a flat spin you would know the difference. a corkcrew feels consistant through the whole inversion, but on a flat spin you kep whipped up then inverted, due to, like islands said, a changing in the radius.

I think island might be right but i dont really know so dont hold me to that.

element names are really confusing-the amercian name for one corkscrew ("half-corkscrew") used to really confuse me. Thats before you even start on the bomerang/cobra roll/batwing thing.

Islands is right. Just look at the picture above. It obviously has a tighter radius in the begining then at the end.

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here is a pic of an Arrow's corkscrew

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here is one of B&M's flat spin. think what you like.

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[quote]a corkcrew feels consistant through the whole inversion, but on a flat spin you kep whipped up then inverted, due to, like islands said, a changing in the radius.[/quote]

That's because Karl Bacon of Arrow designed corkscrew the wrong way. I commented before that Arrow has it's element around track centerline, not heartline like B&M and Intamin.

Great..... an ex NASA engineer did corkscrew the wrong way, haha......

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Karl Bacon didn't design a "wrong"ride. Just a diffrent one!

Sorry people, there is a difference... in a flat spin the rider faces perpendicular to the entrance direction at one point in time... in a corkscrew the rider fices a certain angle the entire time... big difference.

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by beltzies64 [/i]
[B]Island you have no clue what you are talking about. BKF just has normal corkscrews, those are not flatspins. [/B][/QUOTE]

oh really??? it looks to me like [b]beltzies64[/b] is the one who has no clue what he is talking about. IslandKG's explanation at least makes sense, unlike other people's. Like Sonofmontu said: there is a difference in the way they feel while riding. In a corkscrew, you face the same direction. it looks like the world is rotating around you, and you're not even moving, due to the consistent radius, like KG said. B&M improved the corkscrew manuver by making the radius tighter when you are upsidedown, so it feels like you flip really fast.

that is a FLAT SPIN, found on almost all B&M loopers. I am not sure if there are flat spins or traditional corkscrews B&M's early stand-ups (Iron Wolf, Vortex) but I am quite certain that there are flat spins on the newer floorlesses (BKF, Medusa E&W, SKC) and inverteds (Alpengeist, Raptor, etc.). They are different than Arrow and vekoma corkscrews. Just look at the pics that were posted. see a difference?

I have read that change in radius idea other places on the net, not just here. so beltzies64, try actually considering other people's posts, instead of being a jerk and acting like a know-it-all. :rolleyes:

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[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Limacoasterboy [/i]
[B]here is one of B&M's flat spin. think what you like. [/B][/QUOTE]
no those are corkscrews...not flat spins....as of now flat spins are only on inverted coasters

No, flat spins are on non-inverts. For example, the track layout for Mantis clearly says there is a flat spin as its 4th inversion. It's shown in 2 books i have, "roller coaster" and "white-knuckle rides."

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flat spins r a combo of zero g roll and corkscrew on inverted bandm

Whoa talk about difference of opinion! Ive always considered a flat spin like this (in RCT terms) half barrel roll, half corkscrew. That is what they feel like, if youhave ridden raptor. But i think b&m refers to all corscrews as fla spins.

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i not saying either is right but you should remeber when posting at pics that corkscrews look very different depending on what angle you look at them (you can see tihs in rct). I noticed this when i rode goudrix, the pic in white knuckle ride clearly shows a arrow style corksrew but in real life from the que line they look like flat spins,or at least nothing like "round" corksrew. It goes without saying i didnt messaure the radius to check but i think its a point worth considering:) but i not saying either is right.