I would like to know the following...

If the train on the Beast was not slowed down before the second lift hill, because of it's speed and velocity at that point, how far up the second lift hill could the train go before needing assistance to finish the climb?

A lot of people have complained over the years that the second lift hill ruins the pace of the Beast. I have often thought that the train could probably climb most of the way to the top of that second lift hill and then possibly be helped the rest of the way a bit more quickly than it currently is now. I realize that a MCBR is needed, but I still question the slow down.

Your thoughts and reasons....

Hank, If I remember correctly, back when it was new, the train would climb about 1/3 of the way before it slowed enough for the chain to engage.

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^ I know, but there are some sort of brakes there - if they weren't present, how high would it climb?

Brakes before the 2nd lift? The only brakes I can think of are after the 1st tunnel and in the long brake shed. Either way, I don't think it'd make it more than halfway up at any time.

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When I rode the Beast in 2002 before the skid brakes were changed to magnetic brakes, I remember nearly going halfway up the second lift before the chain actually engaged.

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Yeah the magnetic brakes tame it down quite a bit. The turns before the 2nd lift used to toss you, same with the helix. The Beast has been tamed a lot over the years.

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Just to confirm things, there are magnetic brakes during the desent on the first drop near the top, after the first turn after the first hill right before the drop, during the long straight streach before the hugging the ground section of the ride, during the long desent into the helix, and a few that help in the final brake run. There are no braking devices, sled, conventional, or magnetic, before the second lift hill. After a turn, you acend a hill with an anti-roll back at the crest. This leads into a straight section of track that then leads to the second lift hill. With the "taming" brakes throught the ride, the front seat of the train never makes it a fourth of the way. Without the brakes, I seriously doubt it'd make it halfway up.

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I don't really know but I would think it would be fairly important that the train engage a lift hill with the train traveling close to the same speed as the chain. This would give the best chance to reduce the shock of engaging the chain.

Some older coasters really hit hard when they engage.

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Jim says; "The Potential energy of the system at the height of the lift hill is equal to the Kinetic energy at the bottom of the hill...."
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I would have to disagree on the beast being tamed "a lot" i think it has been "tamed" a little, but the only reason to maybe slow it down a little, if they even did that would be for longevity and to prevent it from tearing itself apart like every other big woodie.

I'm not a fan of the magnetic brakes... They slow the train down very abruptly as opposed to the friction brakes which slowed the train down gradually.

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If they spaced the magnets out more it would be more gradual... the skids were replaced after a brake failure several years ago.

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I think there would still be a great shock anyway from the chain motor pulling up nothing and then starting to pull up a multi-ton train in an instant.

Actually newer rollercoasters have a shock absorbing mechanism on the chain. Its real obvious on the Iron Dragon aty Cedar Point because the lift mechanism is on top of the track. What you look for is a loop in the chain that goes around a movable pulley. the tension is kept on this devise by a suspended stack of weights. Whrn the train engages the chain, the chain get more taught, lifting the giant stack of weight slightly. This allows some of the impact energy to be manifested in lifting the weight saving the backs of the peops on the train.

I believe it would be still beneficial for the train to be movingat about the same pace as the chain.

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Jim says; "The Potential energy of the system at the height of the lift hill is equal to the Kinetic energy at the bottom of the hill...."
Jim's friends say; "Just shut up and ride it would you."

The Beast pre magnetic braking would often make it about 1/2 way up the second lift. On a ride prior to the new braking, in the rain, the train made it at least 3/4 of the way up...really probably more, that was the wildest ride I have had on the beast. The current setup is really just sad, as magnetic braking is fixed, therefore the weight of the train alters the effect of the braking, you get in an empty train and the brake before the second hill (just stupid, the only hill that had air on the beast, not anymore) as well as in the covered section just destroys the rides flow. In a full train it runs a little closer to a classic beast ride.

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^there is no way NO WAY it made it 3/4 of the way up the hill. and by the way, there is no brake before the second hill, unless youre reffering to the straightaway tunning thing near the beggining. you go up that one hill and all it is is an anti-rollback device, and it keeps going up the chain, and stops the front car 1/3 of the way up AT MOST before the chain brings you up. Maybe, MAYBE it made it a little more then halfway, but more then 3/4??? if it could do that, why would they even use a chain that long?

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When the ride 1st opened with only the 2 skid brakes on the two drops, the train would make it AT LEAST halfway up the 2nd lift hill. Think about how much speed is taken out of the ride with the 2 trims. Think about how fast it goes into the lift now. With all of the momentum the train can pick up without those 2 trims after the 1st drop, it can make it pretty far up that 2nd lift.

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That's the exact same stupid logic that PKI is operating under as well. Honestly, wooden coasters are not "build and forget". They take contant maintenance over the years, which is why they end up lasting longer than steel coaster (everything can-and should be-replaced).

PKI is just lazy and cheap, and instead of simply maintaining the ride, they just slap more brakes on it. Well, that fixes the maintenance problem, but the ride sucks. PKI needs to realize that in a scenario where you have maintenance costs vs. ride quality, you err on the side of ride quality. They knew when they built the thing that it would have high maintenance costs, and therefore they should keep the ride up to original specs.


When I was there last month, the front car was barely making it 1/4 of the way up the lift. The hill just before the lift actually needed those anti-rollbacks, whereas before the brakes I'm told there was airtime. It's pathetic really.

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the GP doesn't particularly care about ride quality, or at least the finer points of. Think of who rides the Beast on an annual basis, and then think of the number of riders who argue with their buddies as to how far up the second lift it would go without trims as opposed to the number of riders who call the double helix a "loopy thing". So long as the ride is big and fast and looks cool on the park map, regular visitors are going to flock to it. Even if there are enough coaster fans to make a point about adding trims and the like to the management, it's not like we're going to boycott the beast. ( oh, what a day that would be. ) So don't blame paramount for taking the easy way out and slapping trims on a classic when it doesn't make much difference to the public as a collective body if they do- espescially if the savings go towards shiny, [I]new[I] rides. :]

As for the lift: It wouldn't be there if it wasn't needed, so how far up it goes is a moot point. going over faster, though, is an interesting plan. However, i think that PKI is trying to differentiate beast from his son as much as possible, given the nature of said son. Therefore, changing the way the Beast has been running for however many dozen years just to make it wild and rough and forceful again sounds like a bad idea.

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< but blonder.

The trims are on The Beast for safety reasons. They arent cheap or lazy. If you note they have been on the ride for years. The Beast is the 2nd oldest coaster at the park. I was at the park in june and it flew up the 2nd lift as it always had which is half way up before slowing. The 2nd lift is there to get you to the best part of the ride. They look at speed vs. safety when it comes to the coasters. Seems no one looks at this much. It is banging you around on the tunnel turns alot with the trims. Just think if they wasnt there? Be more painfull. The Beast has been a fav of mine and everyone else's for years. If you dont like it then dont ride it. No one makes you go on the rides. As far as keeping up with the original specs, codes for rides have come along way since its been built. Got to keep up with them to stay in the game. Otherwise the riders and the ride are hurt or damaged.

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^ Excellent point. People often complain about trims on some wooden coasters even though they also complain about them being rough. I mean if a coaster like Mean Streak lost its trims, sure it would be a more forcefull ride, but it was also tear itself and its structure apart. With the Beast being such an old and large ride, they have to keep its speed in check otherwise they would be retracking the whole thing every year.

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I wish I didn't have to ride a second lift on Beast but it has its use as a MCBR and it sure was neat to get about halfway up the lift before the chain engaged.

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