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News: Fair board sues Six Flags

Posted Wednesday, February 24th, 2010 at 2:18 pm by Wes

kykingdom1Only weeks after Six Flags announced that Kentucky Kingdom would not be reopening, Kentucky state officials have filed a lawsuit against Six Flags.

At issue: the state wants the bankruptcy judge to declare that all the rides and other attractions on the land are owned by the fair board and not by Six Flags.

Chang was removed last year and Six Flags had claimed there was a water park expansion in the works, but the suit accuses the theme park operator of fraud in regard to the removal of Chang because the water park was never built.

The state board is also suing for breach of contract and damages caused by Six Flags’ removal of any rides.

Earlier this month, when the park closed, the president of the state fair board said he was just as shocked as the public.

“We were surprised by the news release. We weren’t notified ahead of time. We didn’t receive one,” Kentucky State Fair Board President Harold Workman said on February 5.

The state is hearing from Six Flags in the form of a countersuit. The company disputed the ownership of the thrill rides and asked a bankruptcy judge to declare that the contested rides are not the landlord’s property and the company should be allowed to remove those rides.

State officials said there are other parties interested in running the park, so the ruling on who owns the rides is crucial.

Barring a settlement, the judge overseeing Six Flags’ Chapter 11 case will decide who owns the rides.

For more information visit WLKY.

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Comments:

  1. Michael C's Avatar Michael C says:

    I doubt anyone thought this wouldn't be sent to he courts. while i would like to see an outcome that comes out in both parties favor. i know that won't happen.

  2. Leo C's Avatar Leo C says:

    I didn't want to see Chang at SFGAM even as a storage yard ride. Just get it to where it needs to be.

  3. Im not shocked that Six Flags closed another park for no reason. This makes 3 for no reason. They kept closed SFNO due to not wanted to fix the park up after the hurricane. They could of used the insurance money to fix the park up. That led to a lawsuit by the city that i think is still going. They closed Six Flags Astro World for no reason. Now SFKK. I think that the CEO needs to go. Hes screwed up enough already. Six Flags could of sold 2 of the 3 parks and made money on it. This crap they are pulling is gonna put them more into money trouble. They already had to pay out for the drop tower accident to that girl. And that was lifetime care plus the money. Six Flags has had money trouble since they sold Geagua Lake. We had a waterpark in Columbus, Ohio that was owned by Six Flags. They sold it after the 2006 season. It was a rundown park. Now, its better then it ever was since The Columbus Zoo bought it. I wouldnt be shocked if Six Flags closed Magic Mountain.

  4. Michael C's Avatar Michael C says:

    SFI has downgraded their chain dramatically in teh last decade. rarely was ti done right. From what I had heard there was a potential buyer for SFKK. if that was true they should have taken that option. So many of the attractions can't or just aren't worth moving. a new company could have used them as a base and moved on form there. SFI could have been in a situation to make money instead of spending money.

    Another thing is moves like this make SFI look bad. It hurts customer loyalty and in the long run could affect them negatively in teh long run.

  5. Byron's Avatar Byron says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaleE4lifefan View Post
    Im not shocked that Six Flags closed another park for no reason. This makes 3 for no reason. They kept closed SFNO due to not wanted to fix the park up after the hurricane. They could of used the insurance money to fix the park up. That led to a lawsuit by the city that i think is still going. They closed Six Flags Astro World for no reason. Now SFKK. I think that the CEO needs to go. Hes screwed up enough already. Six Flags could of sold 2 of the 3 parks and made money on it. This crap they are pulling is gonna put them more into money trouble. They already had to pay out for the drop tower accident to that girl. And that was lifetime care plus the money. Six Flags has had money trouble since they sold Geagua Lake. We had a waterpark in Columbus, Ohio that was owned by Six Flags. They sold it after the 2006 season. It was a rundown park. Now, its better then it ever was since The Columbus Zoo bought it. I wouldnt be shocked if Six Flags closed Magic Mountain.
    Previous management closed AstroWorld. The land was sold. They didn't own SFNO or SFKK, so they couldn't really sell those, I wouldn't think. Six Flags has had a huge debt load since long before they sold Geauga Lake. They got into trouble much like CF did by spending a lot of money buying parks, and then they put the Six Flags Brand on those parks and built them up. They've since sold off a lot of them, though.

  6. Nitro Luvr's Avatar Nitro Luvr says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaleE4lifefan View Post
    Im not shocked that Six Flags closed another park for no reason. This makes 3 for no reason. They kept closed SFNO due to not wanted to fix the park up after the hurricane. They could of used the insurance money to fix the park up. That led to a lawsuit by the city that i think is still going. They closed Six Flags Astro World for no reason. Now SFKK. I think that the CEO needs to go. Hes screwed up enough already. Six Flags could of sold 2 of the 3 parks and made money on it. This crap they are pulling is gonna put them more into money trouble. They already had to pay out for the drop tower accident to that girl. And that was lifetime care plus the money. Six Flags has had money trouble since they sold Geagua Lake. We had a waterpark in Columbus, Ohio that was owned by Six Flags. They sold it after the 2006 season. It was a rundown park. Now, its better then it ever was since The Columbus Zoo bought it. I wouldnt be shocked if Six Flags closed Magic Mountain.
    Six Flags had a reason to close each and every one of these parks. Anyone that is willing to look on the business side (and not the fan boy side) can see this. SFAW was a run down park that was totally land locked. They had not seen a brand new, non-cloned coaster built in nearly 20 years there. They just did not have room to expand the park at all. You have the highway on one side and corporations on the other side. There was no way to buy extra land to fit new rides in. Shoot, even their parking lot was questionable with it being basically the same parking lot as the Astos and Texans. In order to make money, you need to spend money, but Six Flags can only spend so much money on rides, before people are begging for a large acreage roller coaster. If I'm not mistaken, this park was not even 100 acres total. When I went there, it was not amusement park crowded either. People may see this as good, but in the world of making money, you need people going to your establishments. Next onto SFNO, did you even SEE the aerial footage of the park after Hurricane Katrina? Yes, I love amusement parks, but Six Flags would be a fool to re-invest in that park to rebuild, insurance or not. The amount of damage was very substantial and no one in their right mind would rebuild a several hundred million dollar facility on the site of an area that WILL have another huge flooding again. History has shown that New Orleans is prone to it. It is not a matter of if, but instead when. I would have refused to rebuild too, especially given this was not one of their high profit parks either. Now onto SFKK. This is another amusement park that is land locked and VERY small in comparison to other Six Flags parks. You DO realize that SFKK can fit into SFGAdv no less than 5 times over? THATS how small the park is. Not to mention a bridge separating two sides of the park is just weird. They have little room to expand too and once again SF is in the business of making money to cover a huge debt. As soon as Chang (their signature coaster) was removed, everyone knew this place was closing soon. And the city of Louisville is foolish to think otherwise or surprised too. Last but not least is SFWOA. I actually did like this park, however it was in the middle of nowhere, not close to a large city. They had some nice rides, but with Cedar Point and Kings Island next to two large cities, this park was going to get swallowed up with a larger metropolitan area. It is a simple numbers game. Folks want to blame Six Flags for everything to include these closures. Yes, they screwed up by buying all these amusement parks early on, but in order to alleviate some of this huge debt, you have to cut out the little guys. It is a cruel business world, I know. In the end, (yes, quote me on this) there are only 4 (MAYBE and I mean a strong MAYBE 5) Six Flags parks in the United States that are ultimately safe. If folks need to ask which ones, then you are being a fan boy and not thinking about the business side of a corporation. Yes, I know I will get negative comments from this, but many folks will see that I make mostly good points too.

  7. rjholla2003's Avatar rjholla2003 says:

    The only closures that the CURRENT Six Flags board oversaw was that of SFNO and SFKK. Nitro Luvr did a good job talking about SFNO's reason for closing, so I won't go there. As for SFKK, that's all on the Fair Board. People want to say that Chang's removal was the bell tolling for the park. This is slightly misplaced logic. Yes, the bell was tolling, but for the park in it's current state, NOT as it's status as a Six Flags park. We know that Chang was removed after Six Flags showed the Fair Board plans for a massive Water Park expansion. Now ask yourself, would any company sit there and waste the time, energy, and ultimately MONEY to create a business plan that they KNOW they will NOT use? On top of that, the company is in Bankruptcy Court. Not the time to play silly games with your money. The park was heading the way Geagua Lake was heading, not the way it is heading now. Six Flags clearly wanted to try a different angle and go for the Water Park angle since the theme park wasn't bringing in money in that market.

    Now, the reason I put the blame on the Fair Board is because they decided to call SFI's bluff. Six Flags came with their offer and the KFB decided not to budge. If they didn't like the proposal, which usually happens in negotiations, then you come to the table with your first compromising offer. If the KFB didn't even want to come to the table, why should SFI stick around? The KFB was stupid, and now they are trying to deflect the blame. However, from news article comments, most Kentuckians are wise to the game and know the KFB is to blame.

    Lastly, it is inaccurate to say that the current Six Flags board has driven the chain down. Since they have taken over, Guest Satisfaction Surveys have been at an all-time high, AND Six Flags finally made a profit for the first time in a very long time! That is a company on the rise, not on the fall. The debt was crippling however, so they basically HAD to take the issue to court to clean it up so that they can survive and thrive as a company in the future.

  8. Leo C's Avatar Leo C says:

    The shareholders led by Dan Snyder voted out the former CEO and the current management team that is leading the rebound came into place right after Astroworld closed. The new board wanted to save Astroworld but the wheels were already too far turned in its demolition. Astroworld was one of the first ever attempted theme parks so it was smaller than what most current amusement park models turned out to be. It was like a dinky first generation Honda Civic, too tiny. Astroworld has its importance in theme park history. I wish they planned the initial model to be somewhat bigger, that the park would have already had the land before the development came behind it and surrounded/landlocked it. Who would have known? It was part of the AstroDomain so by design it was going to share parking with the Astrodome and the Convention Hall across the 610 Interstate. I just have that Astroworld as a vacant flatted lot credit.

    SFKK is too weird with a road running through it. My first impression was that it was a State highway running both ways, not an entrance boulevard to a Convention State Fair complex. That was the case with Dorney Park before I was born I believe. I'm glad they closed that in and moved the state route out of the park connecting the park continously on both ends. The state road ran between Thunderhawk and Dominator. It would have went diagonal right under Steel Force's second hill, crossing the ponds. If SFKK comes back with a new operator I bet they would play the boomerang coaster card down the line, it would return.

  9. Jimmy B's Avatar Jimmy B says:

    I'd have to say that from a business standpoint -- and this coming from someone who grew up going there time after time -- it was quite reasonable to close down AstroWorld. The park was way too small, there was virtually no room to expand, they didn't have their own parking lot (always shared with the Astrodome), and not much had been invested in the park. By dismantling the park and selling off the land for more practical uses in the future, Six Flags reduced their debt load and financial burden of maintenance.

    And when the park was built in the 1960's, no one would have anticipated Houston's tremendous growth explosion since then that engulfed the park. If the park had been built further out from the city where space was abundant, it may be that the park might still be here today.

  10. Brian F's Avatar Brian F says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitro Luvr View Post
    Now onto SFKK. This is another amusement park that is land locked and VERY small in comparison to other Six Flags parks. You DO realize that SFKK can fit into SFGAdv no less than 5 times over? THATS how small the park is.
    I'm pretty sure that the park didn't shrink after SF bought it. It was just as small then. If small is such a problem, why did they buy it?

  11. Byron's Avatar Byron says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitro Luvr View Post
    They had not seen a brand new, non-cloned coaster built in nearly 20 years there.
    New, uncloned coasters are overrated. The public doesn't really know the difference. AstroWorld's attendance peaked the year they added Batman: The Escape.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitro Luvr View Post
    When I went there, it was not amusement park crowded either. People may see this as good, but in the world of making money, you need people going to your establishments.
    That one's Premier's fault. When they inherited the park in 1999, it had 1.9 million visitors, after which it steadily declined every year. I think attendance all throughout the 90s was in the 2 million range, peaking at 2.4 million in 1993.

    From the information they had, the decision to close the park was the right one, but they ended up getting about half of what they expected for the land, I believe, which still sits vacant, 4 years later.

  12. Nitro Luvr's Avatar Nitro Luvr says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brian F View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the park didn't shrink after SF bought it. It was just as small then. If small is such a problem, why did they buy it?
    Brian, trust me I never accused Six Flags of being smart. It was an ill advised decision from the very beginning. I still don't understand why they bought it in the first place. Granted Louisville COULD be a good market to pursue, but with little room for expansion, there is only so much you can do. Same goes for Elitch Gardens. I have never been there, so I can not say what the park is like, but I do however know that that park is landlocked too. It makes you wonder what the big wigs at Six Flags were thinking. This always was a message for disaster. All they needed was time.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    New, uncloned coasters are overrated. The public doesn't really know the difference. AstroWorld's attendance peaked the year they added Batman: The Escape.
    I would disagree there. New, uncloned rides are hardly overrated. And if you go to amusement parks you will even hear some of the folks in the line talk about a cloned ride being in a different park and whether they liked it or not. Usually (unless it's B:TR) they did not enjoy that experience. Of course they will not use the same coaster jargon as us, but they get their point across. Does this occur a majority of the time? Of course not, but it does occur. If you go to three different amusement parks and you see the SAME rough Vekoma SLC, coaster fanatic or not, you are not a happy camper about it. People like to see something new and unique to a park. Why do you think Griffon and Sheikra are so popular? They are not the best rides in the world, but they are unique. That is what separates a good park from an outstanding park: having something that no one else has. It even gives you bragging rights too. You see it in commercials all the time, "the largest on the east coast", "the steepest in California", "the fastest in the country", "the only one in the US". These are winning pitches to draw a crowd and it does work.

  13. rjholla2003's Avatar rjholla2003 says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brian F View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the park didn't shrink after SF bought it. It was just as small then. If small is such a problem, why did they buy it?
    Because the OLD Six Flags board bought EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING they could get their hands on. Their reckless purchasing binge brought on rapid over-expansion and a debt load that was unsustainable. At least the new Six Flags board is taking care of that debt problem, and taking the opportunities to chop away at the dead wood when they have the opportunity. That sucks for people who loved SFNO and those who love SFKK, but they are running a business and they need to save it.

  14. Michael C's Avatar Michael C says:

    It was Premier and it's management that bought the parks and yes they grabbed everything that went in front of them. after that they bought SFI. After that the over spending went from parks to ride additions.

    in 2002 Astroworld had 1.8 million making it a medium performing park within the chain. They tore it apart because they thought they could sell the land for a huge profit. Like mentioned above that was not the case. The fact it was land locked meant little to nothing. Technically Magic kingdom is land locked. The quality of the park has a lot to do with survival. A Park with a great atmosphere can sit on ride longer and have few additions and still pull crowds. But Quality was not what SFI was about at the time.

    SFNO was poorly built in teh first place. The land should have been built up to help prevent flooding they new it would flood that's why everything was build up on boardwalks. but, they were obligated by contract to operate the park and rebuild anything damaged for any reason. I under stand and partially agree with their choice but legally they were in teh wrong. They were even more in the wrong to start shipping off rides.

    SFKK - to get back on topic. i agree the fair board has some blame. but We have no idea what percentage of the Straight profit share that SFI proposed was offered. If it was around 5-10 percent I might also have said no. The fair board was apparently getting 1.1 Million in rent as a park SFI was likely making out great in that deal. But if the goal was to convert it to a water park then they needed to cut down what they would pay out.

  15. Leo C's Avatar Leo C says:

    SFNO was Jazzland at first, Alpha Parks' failure.

    Was is the monetary value of Chang if Six Flags is ruled to compensate for it? hmmm.

  16. Michael C's Avatar Michael C says:

    That's a good point that coaster is likely still worth 15-20 Million. Most of what they have added to the park there isn't worth anywhere near that.

  17. Byron's Avatar Byron says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitro Luvr View Post
    I would disagree there. New, uncloned rides are hardly overrated. And if you go to amusement parks you will even hear some of the folks in the line talk about a cloned ride being in a different park and whether they liked it or not. Usually (unless it's B:TR) they did not enjoy that experience. Of course they will not use the same coaster jargon as us, but they get their point across. Does this occur a majority of the time? Of course not, but it does occur. If you go to three different amusement parks and you see the SAME rough Vekoma SLC, coaster fanatic or not, you are not a happy camper about it. People like to see something new and unique to a park. Why do you think Griffon and Sheikra are so popular? They are not the best rides in the world, but they are unique. That is what separates a good park from an outstanding park: having something that no one else has. It even gives you bragging rights too. You see it in commercials all the time, "the largest on the east coast", "the steepest in California", "the fastest in the country", "the only one in the US". These are winning pitches to draw a crowd and it does work.
    People say the same things about rides that are not cloned. It's not totally unexpected to be standing in line for something like Raptor and hear someone say "I rode this same ride at [insert any park with an inverted coaster]."

  18. Racer's Avatar Racer says:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nitro Luvr View Post
    I would disagree there. New, uncloned rides are hardly overrated. And if you go to amusement parks you will even hear some of the folks in the line talk about a cloned ride being in a different park and whether they liked it or not. Usually (unless it's B:TR) they did not enjoy that experience. Of course they will not use the same coaster jargon as us, but they get their point across. Does this occur a majority of the time? Of course not, but it does occur. If you go to three different amusement parks and you see the SAME rough Vekoma SLC, coaster fanatic or not, you are not a happy camper about it. People like to see something new and unique to a park. Why do you think Griffon and Sheikra are so popular? They are not the best rides in the world, but they are unique. That is what separates a good park from an outstanding park: having something that no one else has. It even gives you bragging rights too. You see it in commercials all the time, "the largest on the east coast", "the steepest in California", "the fastest in the country", "the only one in the US". These are winning pitches to draw a crowd and it does work.
    They are unique until other parks buy them. If you think about it, more parks should get some of these unique rides to draw in more costumers in their area. Especially since Busch Gardens has a dive machine monopoly in the US.

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