Battle of 2006 Wood: Voyage vs. El Toro

[Nitro1118]

El Toro won't have more extreme air save maybe 1 drop because of the hill shaping. It'll probably end up like a B&M hyper with bad floaty air. Don't talk to me about Colossus because it uses different hill styles. The first drop will probably pwn, the big hills afterwards will be "blah", and then the twisty section kinda "blah". I don't have much faith in the twisty section as it is heartlined.

You're gonna be so wrong about the airtime. The hills are steeper than Colossos, huge difference in height of drop to 1st/2nd camelback....in other words, there's gonna be some insane ejector airtime. No floaty crap that you seem to think it will have.

As for the twister section, it will probably have some nice positive G's and be lots of fun because it will be taken at high speeds.

[Chris L]

El Toro has yet to carry passengers, so I don't think a fair matchup is in place until both coasters are operational. But as far as speculating which one is better, based on photographs and videos, I would have to say The Voyage will take the pie, easily. Like stated above, it's just much more "complete" of a wood coaster. El Toro's track length is much too short for a coaster of that height. That's not saying El Toro won't be a good coaster, but we're doing a matchup here and it looks like The Voyage won't have much competition in it.

[Nitro1118]

^Agreed. Voyage will probably be a top 2-3 wooden coaster in every single poll by November. But, Toro is basically an edgier Colossos (steeper drop, gonna have more intense airtime, and the twister section), and sicne Colossos is rated a top 10 or so wooden coaster, Toro will be up there with Voyage.

[BGWfanatic]

Im gonna say El Toro's first section will beat Voyages First part. While Voyages middle and ending will beat El Toro's Big time. So my final vote is going for Voyage.

[Leo C]

I'm still waiting and waiting to give a better opinion in this - even if I won't be able to ride The Voyage for years. I still have to admire the all wood structure and the runaway appeal El Toro will have in the more GP mainstream world of the New York - Philadelphia market.

[Screamweaver]

LoL!

If the fanboys have their way, Voyage and El Toro will sit in the #1 and #2 spots at the end of the year. Not bad for first year coasters.

Actually, I think things might look somewhat like this:

1) Voyage
2) Thunderhead
3) Hades
4) El Toro
5) Raven (look for Raven to make a huge jump with all the attention focused on Voyage, not to mention the new track work).

[Canobie Coaster]

I would definitely prefer the Voyage because I have been on a few CCI coasters (Gravity Group was formed by people from CCI), while I have never been on an Intamin wooden coaster. The Voyage is much longer (about 2,000 feet longer), is a ride about a minute longer, and has more air-time.

[Martin]

^ Yes but you still fail to read what tons of people have said about comparing the airtime on both of these coasters. Voyage will obviously have more airtime in general. However it seems from the shaping of El Toro's hills and the hight difference from the drop to the first few hills, El Toro will have, more extreme airtime if you will. Obviously there is no way to tell at this point since El Toro has yet to have a human rider, but this is just what people have been speculating if you have read the thread.

[Matt M]

However it seems from the shaping of El Toro's hills and the hight difference from the drop to the first few hills, El Toro will have, more extreme airtime if you will.

No.

The badly designed arrow style hills such as the ones found on Magnum are best shaped for air. A parabola is best shaped for floater air, which is crap. I really doubt it'll have the tremendous air you think it will because if you're going off of Heide Park's woodie and Balder then you have notice that both rides don't have the incredibly parabolic hills this sucker has.

[Martin]

Yes.

First off I was comparing Voyage's airtime to El Toro's, not to Arrow hypers. Why does S:ROS have good airtime if it's hills are parabolas?

Sorry I don't call the below photo "incredibly parabolic":
http://www.amusementpics.com/2006%20...050506-016.jpg

[magnum_man1989]

24 secs of airtime? is that a world record among coasters i really dont pay attention to that stuff. Anyway i cant vote because i havent ridden them but Id rather ride voyage.

[VekomahangNbang]

This should be closed and reopen only when someone non fanboy has ridden both coasters.

[Nitro1118]

No.

The badly designed arrow style hills such as the ones found on Magnum are best shaped for air. A parabola is best shaped for floater air, which is crap. I really doubt it'll have the tremendous air you think it will because if you're going off of Heide Park's woodie and Balder then you have notice that both rides don't have the incredibly parabolic hills this sucker has.

Colossos' hills are exactly the same:

http://www.gainsider.com/gallery/ima...06kkcrane2.jpg

http://pictures.rcdb.com/picmax/heid.../colossos4.jpg

The only difference is Toro's camelbacks have steeper sides, but the shaping is practically the same. Now mix in the height difference and the speed it will rocket through them, it will have loads of airtime.

[redunzelizer]

Pleas don't talk too much about parabolas, or even about those technically primitive Magnum hills. Both of these shapes have very bad "airtime economics" in relation to size/geometry and effect duration (=airtime length), the latter giving you jerks in case which are not tolerable within an advanced design like El Toro.

I'm not able to tell exactly what particular functions these guys actually have used with Colossos, Balder and El Toro. But believe me - starting with (partial) clothoids, 5th, 6th or even higher order polynomials, as well as iterating and differential equations optimized for said duration and intensity progress - there are a couple of wicked solutions to chose from, most likely even separately applied for each hill. One could imagine that the same smartness apllies for the Voyage, of course!

BTW, same goes for any "critical" dips, where there are numerous methods to spread high g-forces along the whole drop - dip - upward-sequence without exceeding set limits, getting way shorter(!) valleys as with any plain circle segment.

I'd definitely not underestimate modern rollercoaster designers...


P.S. I'll take both, if you don't mind!

[-American Viper]

I''m going to have to go with Voyage. My Breakdown:

Height-ET
Drop-ET
Airtime-Voyage
Turns-Voyage
Sensation of speed-Voyage
Location-Voyage
One that feels better after hour line-Voyage

El toro has its drop, airtime hills, and turns, but Voyage does the same with them and turns it into a coaster with 2000 more feet than its wanna-be friend.

[coasterdude28]

We know that Voyage has great airtime. We know that ET most likely will have EXTREME airtime, but not as much. For anyone saying that ET will lack airtime, please look at these. The spots that I indicated WILL have airtime. Especially in the first picture.

Pictures taken by GACoasterguy

[Nitro1118]

First drop, 2 camelbacks, small bunny hop (that will only give floater airtime), the hill over RT, and the first non inverted corkscrew will all give great airtime.

[coasterdude28]

And, on top of the airtime, almost every hill has a headchopper.

[VekomahangNbang]

I''m going to have to go with Voyage. My Breakdown:

El Toro hasn't even opened yet, so shutup.

[Nitro1118]

Yo one thing though, the hill in your first pic will only have floater airtime. It is VERY drawn out and similar to Colossos', which is said to only have floater.

[coasterdude28]

Floater airtime is still airtime.

[Nitro1118]

Yes, but you said "especially in the 1st pic" where you pointed to that hill. The 1st 2 camelbacks will have much stronger airtime.

[Joseph]

We know that Voyage has great airtime.

That is not a fact, just as my opinion is not a fact. It had very good airtime but wasn't as abundant as I would have exected and a lot of it is more "pop"-y than serious ejector. It suprised me, but that's not to say it didnt still rock my socks (if I wore socks, of course)

I'm really starting to think that El Toro will be a sleeper pick and could be better than Voyage to more than expected.

[Chris L]

Floater airtime is still airtime.

Good call. It's funny when enthusiasts use "just" right before floater airtime. Ejector or floater, airtime is airtime!

I'm really starting to think that El Toro will be a sleeper pick and could be better than Voyage to more than expected.

Let's hope so! From what I've heard about The Voyage so far, the general census is that it's a spectacular ride, with very few complaints about anything. I hope to hear the same about El Toro, although I'm a bit skeptical.

[Martin]

El Toro's first testing video. Now we can begin to compare and contrast.

[Brian F]

It's really kind of silly to speculate until someone has ridden both. From the pictures, El Toro looks to be a standard out and back coaster, nothing new or innovative. I'm not saying that's a bad thing- traditional out and back woodies are my favorites. If it's got good air, especially ejector air, it should be awesome. Voyage has lots of air, but it is pretty much all floater. Floater air is great, but I do like a mix.

As far as being innovative, It doesn't appear that El Toro even deserves mention in the same sentence with Voyage. Voyage is truly non-stop excitement. You have a VERY brief pause on the MCBR- other than that, it's fast and wild all the way to the final brake run, including an absolutely fantastic finish. Gravity Group and Will koch wanted to make something very unique, and they certainly succeeded. Some of the non-standard elements of the ride really add a lot to it. Just before you start into the turnaround, there is a wicked little airtime dip that is really great. The third drop in the triple down gives some great air, and since it's in the dark, you can't anticipate it until you've got a couple of rides in.

As I said, this thread is, for now, pretty much just a fanboy shouting match. Until ET opens, and someone rides both, nobody's opinion really means very much.

[Martin]

^ El Toro does have a few twister elements in it's second half and obviously the record 76 degree drop on a wooden coaster.

[Almost]

...And the first cable lift on a woodie, ever. Voyage is easily the most complete woodie ever, but El Toro is basically an Intamin Mega made out of wood.

I'd still rather ride The Voyage, but El Toro ain't half bad either.

[Joseph]

What defines "most complete"?

Do you mean it has the largest variety of stuff? If so, then yes, it is very complete. It has speed, airtime, laterals, terrain... tons of stuff. But so does Boulder Dash, and at least 3 of those aforementioned traits are done better on Boulder Dash. Of course, there's no denying that Voyage pulls these together very well either, and I won't complain about having several awesome woodies out there. :-)

I hope I can ride El Toro this year.

[Marcus]

Wow, this thread is still going?

After recently riding Voyage at Holiwood Nights and having it absolutely destroying my top wood coasters including Raven, Boulder Dash, Shivering Timbers, Phoenix, Thunderhead, and many more. I would like switch my vote until I finally get a chance to ride El Toro.