Dec. 7, 1941- A day that will live in infamy

[Sir Willow]

On this day 64 years ago, over 2400 people gave their lives when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, dealing a major blow to our Paicific fleet and ushering us into World War II.

On this day when we have so many men and women serving in other countries and fighting for our freedom as the result of another sneak attack, take the time to also remember those who surrendered their lives in service to their country at Pearl Harbor, and throughout the various wars we've fought. Remember, and realize that they did it for our freedom, and so that others could experience that same freedom that we enjoy today.

[Cephas]

When I was putting a date on a paper in school today, I realized today's significance. The entire day, I wasn't exposed to any mention of pearl harbor, or any reverence of today's date.

12/7/41 is probably the most significant day in the 20th century, and it is a shame that it's been all but forgotten.

[Matt M]

[QUOTE=Cephas]12/7/41 is probably the most significant day in the 20th century, and it is a shame that it's been all but forgotten.[/QUOTE]

Seriously? MANY worse things happened in that century. I'm not saying Pearl Harbor wasn't bad, but much worse has happened and that's why i don't think today is the most signifigant day in the 20th century.

[Cephas]

1) Pear Harbor causes america to enter WWII
2) WWII causes america to become a superpower and enter the cold war.

The impacts of 12/4/41 are greater than the impacts from most any other day. Significance comes from much more than a death toll.

[Matt M]

Hahahaha. We were in WWII unofficially for a long time. Sending supplies to people fighting Japan and the Axis Powers along with blocking Japan's oil was totally asking for it. What do you think the USA would do if our oil was suddenly cut off?

I'd go with the Soviet Union's collapse or the obvious Holocaust stuff but whatever floats your boat.

[Cephas]

We might have been already indirectly involved in the war, but if pearl harbor had not happened, I'm sure history would have played out very differently.

Although we might have entered the war at a later date anyways, the simple fact that it was December 7 (it was really the 8th, but that was a direct result of what happened on the 7th), makes today special. Just to give a counter-example, if we had entered WWII sometime in 1942, that other date would be the special one. It dosen't really matter if the event could have happened at a different time.

Also, if you were to choose something about the holocause or fall of the USSR, what single day would you pick?

[James R]

I heard about it during my school's morning announcements. They had a speil about it, and the rest is history. (pun not intended.)

Has anyone here ever been to the USS Arizona Memorial? I've always had an extreme interest in Pearl Harbor, and visiting it was so awesome. Other than a couple other places, it is one of my MOST favorite places I have ever been to. There is this keen sense of surrealism that envelopes the memorial. You can almost feel the respect that the memorial has in the air. It's so emotional to visit it, or at least I felt it was. The oil is seeping from the Arizona's hull, and you can clearly see it in the water.

[Ryan F]

[QUOTE=Cephas]Also, if you were to choose something about the holocause or fall of the USSR, what single day would you pick?[/QUOTE]
Why does it matter that those events were over a span of more than one day? Yes, Peral Harbor was indeed a very sad and tragic day, but going so far as saying it's the most significant in the 20th century is a bit much. One of the top most significant days for sure, but as Matt said, the Holocaust was much much worse; everyday of the Holocaust was hell for those people.

[raser]

^ If you look at it in a wide and open way if December 7th hadn't happened then we might still be living out the Holocaust as Hitler could have taken over the whole european continent and if the US would have gone to war that late in the game it would have probably been too late and only blue eyed blonde germans would exist, which would mean I wouldn't be typing this right now...

[JordanMullins]

I really really dont think it is one of the most significant days. It did have a huge impact on the world today, but like matt said, worse things have happened. Like when Germany invaded Poland. The start of World War 2 is more significant then halfway through when America joined, though Pearl Harbour was tragic, what about November 6th 1945 Hiroshima? Then only 3 days later Nagasaki? Japan had far worse things happen then in America.

[Cobra]

[QUOTE=raser]^ If you look at it in a wide and open way if December 7th hadn't happened then we might still be living out the Holocaust as Hitler could have taken over the whole european continent and if the US would have gone to war that late in the game it would have probably been too late and only blue eyed blonde germans would exist, which would mean I wouldn't be typing this right now...[/QUOTE]

We didn't invade Europe until over two years after Pearl Harbor was bombed. 1942-1943 was all fighting in the Pacific as a result of Pearl Harbor before we even entered Europe, and we would've entered the European theatre regardless.

[Brian F]

[QUOTE=Matt M] Sending supplies to people fighting Japan and the Axis Powers along with blocking Japan's oil was totally asking for it. [/QUOTE]

I recently watched a dcumentary espousing basically the same thing you just said. Apparently, at the time, there was a large portion of the American public that was against us joining WWII, so FDR provoked the Japanese into attacking us so that he could use the outrage as a reason to go to war.

It's an interesting theory,and certainly plausible.

[Joseph]

12.7.1941 was a very important and tragic event, but I personally don't put it as the "Event of the 1900s".. I think these dates (and maybe others) are/were more powerful and important:

~1932 - though its hard to pin down to a specific date, The fall of the Weimar

November 9, 1938 (my grandmothers DOB, interestingly enough) - The KristalNacht

August 2, 1964 - Maddox is sunk -->> Gulf of Tonkin Resolution


And what I truly believe to be the defining day of the 20th Century:

June 6, 1944. Operation Overlord. They did the unthinkable, they successfully pulled off a massive invasion from the sea. Had thousands upon thousands of men not given their lives that day, the outcome of World War II may have been drastically different. As it is, the war resulted in give or take 50 million deaths and with the nuclear age around the bend at that point, heaven knows how many more lives would have been lost, or if wewould even have a planet left.

[Sir Willow]

^ But Overlord never would have happened without Pearl Harbor. Kristalnacht was really a fairly localized event, and while significant, it would have been the first in a long string of evictions and herdings after Germany had solidified it's hold on Europe- one that may not have ever been given up if we hadn't entered the war when we did. As much time as it took to get our war machine really rolling, Germany could have used that time to lock up Europe and possibly knock Russia out of the war. And without the Germans fighting on 2 fronts, we had no chance.

I certainly don't put Vietnam or anything related to it anywhere near the importance of a global war.

As far as FDR provoking the Japanese, while it may be a theory, it's one with little credibility or evidence for it.

In any case, it's all interesting how this has played out discussion wise on a thread that I meant more as a memorial and reminder, not a discussion of how significant the day was. But hey, whatever floats your boat (pun intended)

[Joseph]

I disagree, I believe it would have happened, but it may not have been successful. The Brits and French would have at least had to try to mount a counter offensive against Germany.

The only reason I view the entry of the United States into Vietnam is because we didn't win that war - it showed once again that even the strongest nation in the war can be beaten, just look at the Afghan invasion of 1980 as well.

I'm sure had the KrystalNacht not occured, there would have been a similar event to start the Holocaust as we know it, but look at the chain of events that you can tie into that one event:

- Holocaust
- Nation of Israel created for the Jews after the war
- Ongoing struggle between the Muslims and Jews in the area, a strugle which has lasted the majority of the last half century

Honestly, it depends on what perspective we are looking at it too. The Japanese may say August 8th, 1945 was the defining day of their century. Those in Eastern Europe may say November 9, 1989. It really varries..