Knoebels to receive Flying Turns!!!!

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Anybody want a peak at the recent construction.
http://www.coasterclub.org/trips/reports/2006/usa/day6/
The photos on this page are from the European Coaster Clubs trip to Knoebels, seems they got a construction tour. The link above is the ECC trip page it has lots of photos of members but look for the photos of the track work. The photos are mixed in a couple at the top and more toward the bottom of the page.

I will be at Knoebels next week for some photos of the ride and I am going to try and get up close but just have to see if the park will allow me access.
J.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Well sorry to double post.
I was out at Knoebels today 8-29-06. My orginal trip was supposed to be in June. Anyway finally made the trip up for some construction photos unfortunatly rain was the order of the day. As for the ride I was told that half of the structure is done and about 1/6th of track work is complete. I was also told that there is one more layer of wood that goes on the track. Anyway I have 24 photos from today up on my site www.johnnyupsidedown.com. Or quick link directly to the photos here http://www.johnnyupsidedown.com/new2007ft.html
Enjoy

[Ryan F]

I dont know if this has been brought up before....but are there any breaks on this ride? How is it going to slow down to come into station?

[medieval]

Nice update Johnny. This looks to be a cool coaster. I cant wait to go their next year.

[Leo C]

Next year will be my Pennsylvania year I can feel it. I probably will not get a SF pass next year cause I basically do it every other year. In those off years I usually go to Dorney, no excuse not to go to Hershey for the 100th, now Knoebels. Hopefully I can get to Lakemont and Delgrosso's.

[coasterdude28]

Great update Johnny. This coaster is coming along nicely. I will definately be driving out there next year to try this out.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Thanks guys compliments allways appreciated.. For me I think the ride looks awesome. It is so uniquely different then anything I have seen. I cant wait to see the trains fly down the track next year. It should be a fun ride.

[NC Coasterman]

I've recently come across this site

http://community-2.webtv.net/Coastin...urnsFotosbyCS/

has updated construction information and photos.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Great site for those that have an interest in the Flying Turns and how its made check out the latest sets of photos from the link above.
Steve has been working on the ride on the weekends with the crew. Lots of information he posts over on Rec.roller-coaster News group,
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...437797e77f7e45

Great photos its pretty amazing to see how its all done.

[Leo C]

The message sounds even exciting in the rec.rollercoaster. The woodwork looks amazing. I wouldn't think I'd call a rollercoaster beautiful. In a wood shop class this would be an amazing site to site visit/intern.

[Zingoman]

^How could you not ever have seen a roller coaster that you though was beautiful? That blows my mind! lol. There are a lot of coasters out there that I think are beautiful. Mean Streak, Mantis, Texas Giant, Riddler's Revenge, Zingo , Thunder Dolphin, Olympia Looping, the list goes on. I don't knwo if I'd call the Flying Turns beautiful from the midway, but looking inside that trough is a golden monument of wooden splendor! lol I can't wait until I can get over there and give this beast a go. This has to be the greatest revival of a lost attraction we will ever have the pleasure of seeing. All the workmanship going into this rather moderate sized coaster really shows you how impressive the larger Turns must have been back in the good ole days. I wonder how long it took to build them back then.

[Jim S.]

I dont know if this has been brought up before....but are there any breaks on this ride? How is it going to slow down to come into station?

Funnel it from the trough into a side-friction coaster track with brakes, after angling the trough upward to slow the train enough to not bash the funnel too hard.

[Zingoman]

Assuming WildeFyre meant brakes and not breaks, it said on one of those websites that the coaster will run downlhill all the way until the last turn into the brakerun. The coaster will have brakes, but I'm very curious to know what kind. Will they be modern clamp style air brakes with fins under the trains, or skid brakes like Twister. I really want to know how much speed the trains will have left at the end and how hard they will have to brake them. We don't really see coasters that are all downhill to the end. It seems like it will be at it's top speed towards the end.

[Bratman]

There are a few coasters that are pretty much downhill to the end.... namely the bobsleds like Disaster transport. While DT has a couple controlled small uphill sections that lead into block brakes, it is for the most part all downhill. Somehow the cars get funnelled into a brake run (the type of which I do not know). Perhaps whatever is used on DT can be adapted for Flying Turns?

[Jim S.]

From what I've read, the layout is going to be station -> lift -> helix/tunnel -> lift -> main section -> brakes -> lift -> station. Part of the reason for the extra lift at the end is to help keep the trains spaced out -- they want to run 3 trains since each train holds so few people, and each section of the ride is going to be fairly short. I think I read that it's going to use skid brakes. Since the top speed is going to be around 25 mph and they're going to use gravity to slow the trains enough to guide them into the brake run, I doubt braking will be a problem.

[Zingoman]

^^Bratman, I would have to disagree about Disaster Transport being mostly downhill. It actually spends more time going uphill than down hill. Off the lift the ride dives down to the right then spirals uphill to the left into the first block section, then it drops to the left and into an uphill clock-wise helix up into another block brake, Then drops to the left clear to the ground, and zig zags uphill all the way back up to the final brakes. DT also uses the typical brakes with fins, and tire drives.

^I had my suspicions that Flying Turns had two lift hills but was never sure. To hear that it could possibly have three is really wild! It would make sense in the layout, although I think perhaps the lift before the tunneled helix will not be true, but rather the lift into the station will be the second one. You could be right though. I really don't know any better. I just know I cannot wait to see this thing in action!

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Here is the latest update on the Flying turns from RRC,
Quote from CoastinSteve.
Well after the ACE visitors the previous weekend it was back to
buisness as usual @ Knoebels this past weekend.
Dispite the cold and occasional snow squals the efforts of the
construction crew are now focused on the helix
(altho work is continuing on building the trough of turn #10 of the
main section too )
60 yards of concrete footings had been poured the previous week and
another 40 yards worth were to be poured this week.
Taking down a part of the Flyers ride fence gave us access to that
flat area to begin building the bents that will form the helix.
Drilling and bolting the 4 X 6's and 4 X 8's the pieces of the next
section of the ride are beginning to come together and should be
beginning to get erected during this week

I added a couple pics to my Flying T's page including some shots of
the Phoenix and Twister, sleeping under a blanket of snow

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve

Below are a couple new photos.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Coastin...CS/page11.html

[Zingoman]

Thanks for sharing your photos! The official FT page never updates anymore. It's good to see the progress being documented on your site, I just wish the photos were bigger. Percentage wise, roughly how far along is the project's construction?

[Johnny Upsidedown]

I agree I wish Coastin Steve would put up larger photos but I think that is the agreement that he has with his boss and Dick Knoebels. Steve is employeed on the weekends with the crew doing the work on Flying Turns so he is really only allowed to say so much. I will ask Steve on RRC how far along they are. I havnt been following the construction to much I just figure some may have an interest in the updates since Steve doesnt post here.
Probably more soon. Its possible Steve will be working on the Starliner also, I dont know for sure, but will find out soon enough.

Anyway I will continue to bring the info Steve posts as some of it is more detailed. As some weeks he has explained how parts are made and other stuff. Anyway I love the building process of the rides so this ride is very interesting how its made.

[Bratman]

Saw those pictures...damn that looks awesome. I can't wait to ride it when I swing by after the Preservation Conference this August.

[Michael C]

That coaster really looks agreat. Even if the ride isn't fantastic it is one of the most Visually appealing coasters i have seen.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Sorry no photo update this week but here is the latest info from Coastin Steve on RRC.

I didn't get the chance to get up to Knoebels this past weekend to
work on the Flying Turns
ICE on many of the central Pennsylvania roads closed many of the ways
for me to get there, so I called in and told them I wasn't going to be
there and why.
Talking to Lenny Adams (Leonard Adams son), he gave me the
progress report over the phone.
The bents of the starting helix turn have started to be erected.
These consisted of the ones that contain a single track ledger that are
the farthest from "the road".
The double ledgered bents should start going up this week, but not
too many of them can get erected before the steel collum in the center
of this turn must be set (otherwise too much "stuff" will be in the
way)
So, sorry, no pictures this week. I should have some new ones
after next weekend

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve

ps the most common question I'm asked about this ride is "when?"
The answer is when it's done
With this ride being the prototype that it is, progress is so
varied that making a prediction as to when it will be done is
impossible.
So keep looking here for my reports and as the project gets closer
to being done, we'll all know it.
http://community.webtv.net/Coastin_S...TurnsFotosbyCS

[coasterdude28]

Any recent updates? Has the park given a ballpark estimate as to when FT will open? Do you think it will be open by mid-late June?

This coaster really looks fun.

[Jerry S]

Probably a lot of testing needs to be done with different weight distributions and how they'll affect the ride.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

I am expecting an update later today. I got an email from Coastin Steve that he should have an update later tonight. I will post his comments from RRC when he posts. There should be new photos also. I will ask Steve when he thinks it might open, but the general answer has always been it will open when its done but I will try and find an answer if its available.
More later onecs the new info is posted.

[Jim S.]

I'm eagerly waiting for a Steve update, as there hasn't been one for a few weeks. You can't tell anything from the webcams because they're at the wrong end of the ride.

[HSTC]

I was in the area late Sunday afternoon and did a quick drive by. Here are a few photos I snapped.

pic1

pic2

I didn't have time to get out and look around so I just took the photos from the car. I didn't see any work going on, but as the photo shows work has started on the helix.

[Bratman]

Hopefully this will be done by early August. My nieces and I will swing through on our way home from ACE's Preservation Con.

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Ask and you shall receive.
Well many have asked about the photo size on Coastin Steves photos.
Well Steve replyed this week with a nice present. Look in page 9 to 11 for the latest photos of FT>
STEVES reply from RRC
Hi All
I have been truely blessed to be able to work on Knoebels Flying
Turns ride and take pictures as work continues. The goal, to share
these pics with all of you, so far has been done by my little Flying
Turns Fotos page.
Many of you have expressed a little frustration at not being able to
magnify or otherwise manipulate the photos once they're "locked" in my
WebTV based page.
So now, with the help of our friend "Cyclonic" <Nathan Brown> I
present ALL of my Flying Turns photos TO DATE at his Smugmug photos page
(currently over 150 photos !! 17 pages I think)
I really have no intention of adding comments to the photos there,
but if there's any photo there you have a question about, just send me
an e-mail <or post it to the RRC> and I'll be happy to address it.
I will continue to add to my Flying Turns Fotos page week to week
and add to the Smugmug gallery every once in a while, as
the my pile of digital photos builds up.

So once again, thanks to Dick, Buddy, Len and John for allowing me
to help build this ride and thanks to Nathan for helping me get these
photos up on the web in a way that many of you can enjoy more.
Here's the link 8-)

http://www.cyclonic.smugmug.com/gall...7917#136675762
Also note that this link will be posted on my little Flying Turns
page as well <not yet, but I will be putting it there>

Flying Turns carpenter
Coastin Steve
http://community.webtv.net/Coastin_S...TurnsFotosbyCS

[Johnny Upsidedown]

Big update, photos should be coming tomorrow. You can read other comments on this here http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...89bf1d9b11d1dd
From Coastin Steve and another post was made by John Fetterman who is the man that has recreated the Flying turns and has built and rebuilt others. Some may know of him.
From Coastin Steve on the progess
The pace at Knoebels has definately stepped up over the last few
weeks.
I few new people hired, longer work hours w/ daylight savings
happening and the rest of the park showing signs of life to get ready
for opening in a few weeks.
The 90 degree trough turn by the North Pole and Christmas shop, is
beginning to take shape. As soon as the trough of this turn ends the
train will engage the third lift hill to get the train back up to
loading barn height.
While no bents have been placed for this lift hill yet, I would
suspect that those would be going up next week.

On the other end of the ride the starting helix has all of it's bents
in place, as well as the hand laminated, twisted beams that will support
the trough in this section.
As we build what John Fetterman has designed in this helix, we know
that John has a great sense of what "we" like, as back seat ride thru
this section of track will be quite "enjoyable" <g>
Next for the helix are the steel support rings that form the
trough. Setting these should be starting this week, and these will be
some of the steepest angled rings set so far. 8-)


The number of bents needed to be built and set to complete the circle
is getting down to the end. <G> Then there's trough to be built in
the helix and turns beyond the brake run, side friction track to do on
3 lift hills and the brake run, and a loading barn to build
.... and you want it by when ??


From John Fetterman, about why the ride is taking so long to build.


Have we bitten off more than we can chew? Not if we keep nibbling
away. Fortunatly we have not built anything which has had to be torn
down and rebuilt, so progress continues, whether it is at a faster
pace or slow as molasses.
One factor we considered before embarking on this project was the
cost of money these days. We wondered whether we would be able to
carry the debt load of unproductive money for an extended period if
the project extended for longer than normal. Because of relatively
low interest rates - "cheap" money - that burden is easier to bear
than it might have been, say back in 1980 during the Carter malaise
years of high inflation and high interest rates.
Also, we have ourselves in a highly attractive position, remember,
with our free admission and free parking policy - people can come to
see the construction and do not have to pay an exhorbitant price just
to watch. So an incomplete ride is less a slap in the face of a
"cheated" consumer who pays our list price to get in but gets no
benefit from just observing the progress, than it would be if he had
to pay full admission just to watch clever carpenters bend wood.
Talk of completion for PPP 2006 was not B.S., but it would have
required much more intensity of construction practises than we have
had to live with. Ironically, our approach leads to an overall lower
finished cost, by building slowly. A project built rapidly is rife
with mistakes, backtracking, finger-pointing, high-cost instant-
delivery contracts, next day air deliveries of every and all
components, and so on. The Knoebel family have been remarkably
patient and supportive of this deliberate process, even as the
progress had been "slow".
In the end, we are building a unique ride, the type of which hasn't
been built for decades - and frankly, because of increased safety and
longevity concerns, this type of ride has really never been built
before. How long does it take to build such a ride, especially if
your prime concern is operation and maintenance of an existing
amusement park? We all would love to have the monkey off our back, to
get the ride open, but we started the project in full knowledge that
we had considerable leeway in the length of time available to complete
the job properly. It will get open at some point, and we appreciate
the understanding shown by so many who have been inconvenienced by our
slow progress.