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Yellowbird88
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 163
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California Adventure is kinda lame...
Maybe they should have tHE Arnold do his Terminator voice to narrate Soarin' Over California.
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| 10/17/2007 11:54 AM |
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Dukeis#1
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 932
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I suppose this is the closest Disney will ever get to flat out admitting that they screwed up big time there. Hopefully a major overhaul will help California Adventure (or whatever it will be called in the future) to work better.
I always thought that building a second park in Anaheim was a bad idea to begin with, even before CA opened and flopped...they should have just left Disneyland as it was. I wonder if the Westcot idea or an American version of DisneySea would have been more successful...
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| 10/17/2007 12:07 PM |
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Wes
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11378
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It recalls to mind the Simpsons joke about the best place to hide was DCA, cause no one ever goes there.
I think it probably would have been better to choose another route with the park, it just doesn't look "Disney enough" and I haven't even been there before.
Just kinda looks cheesy compared to the other parks.
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| 10/17/2007 2:27 PM |
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vedved82491
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 914
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I've easily spent a full day there before and had fun. Sure I was only about 11 years old, but still, I think with a few improvements, the park could be great. I highly recommend they keep Maliboomer. One reason being it's the only S&S Tower that shoots up in California (I believe). the rest only being freefalls. Finding space will also be an issue. Unless the fill in part of the lake, maybe add a water ride, another coaster? They have decent flats so who knows. Carland is coming in the near future. It's all slowly shaping together.
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| 10/17/2007 5:42 PM |
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bk2004
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7743
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DCA was a mistake? It's a flop? Anyone care to explain? I have no idea...
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| 10/17/2007 8:30 PM |
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raser
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2070
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When is 6 million people nobody? I think Cedar Point would love to draw 6 million. And before anyone says anything I know they are open year round where Cedar Point isn't ...
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| 10/17/2007 9:40 PM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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DCA is far from a failure. Furthermore, ask the Internet critics what they want and you get no answer or they just say I wanted it to be like Disneyland. The biggest mistake Disney could've made was to replicate Disneyland. Most of the loud mouth Internet critics are Disney fre*ks and bona fide mor*ns.
I've been to the park many times and it is a very elaborate theme park and very underrated. Only Disney builds theme parks with the sort of details that California Adventure has all over. The problem with the naysayers is they visit with their eyes closed.
When DCA opened Disney clearly said that they intended to further expand the park. This is announcement is not an admission of failure. Instead, it is is an announcement that furthers the development of the park as was always intended. There is not a single Disney theme park in the world that is a finished project. They're all works in progress. The day Disney decides that one park is finished is the first day to failure of that park.
Dukeis#1 you are clueless by stating that you think that Disney building a second park was a bad idea. Disney has turned Anaheim into a resort destination where previously it was just a single one-day theme park.
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| 10/17/2007 10:25 PM |
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CHILLERLC1
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8428
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DCA is not worth the price of a sole admission. The name sounds better than "Disneyland Annex/Backyard". Disney made themselves so upper echelon in family and very particular in thrill attractions I don't think they could create a package that's better or more genuine than IOA and Knott's. They should just be Disney and not try to do anything that would make them like Knott's. Knott's is Knott's. I would go there for the thrills.
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| 10/17/2007 11:57 PM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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Who said that Disney was attempting to be anything like Knott's? Why would you even draw such a comparison? DCA doesn't remind me of anything like Knott's. You don't think that Disney could create a better park that IOA or Knott's if they wanted to build a thrill ride park? Oh please! And since when does Knott's Berry Farm even belong in the same discussion as Islands of Adventure. Knott's is miles behind Universal's Islands of Adventure. Why are TN regulars such a naive group.
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| 10/18/2007 2:37 AM |
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Steven
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7717
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I would watch the flaming on here, because none of it is necessary to get your point across. Calling Duke clueless and the rest of TN "naive" is going to get you nowhere very fast, and in fact, going to get you off of this site quicker than it takes for me to say that I'll kick you off the site myself with my size 12.
Also, keep in mind that others have opinions, and no single member's opinion is the only correct opinion... regular or not. If everyone thought like you, or if anyone thought like any other single member, it'd be awfully boring.
My question now to you is... where in the article does it say they're going to expand the park? Where in the article does it say that it was doing good? From what I read of it (both in the TN and the original WSJ articles), they're spending $1.1 billion to OVERHAUL the park. Usually that means they're going to re-do some attractions, replace some, and if they're lucky, they may get one or two new ones. They also said that it wasn't doing anywhere near as well as Disneyland. The park cost $1 billion to build, and now they're spending more to try to improve it.
Yeah, they're also expanding it by 12 acres and adding a few new attractions. But, it's more out of necessity than success.
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| 10/18/2007 8:22 AM |
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Yellowbird88
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 163
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I gotta point out the obvious...
all4thx, Knotts is in California and Universal's Islands of Adventure is in Florida why would you compare two 'competing parks' if you have to hop on a plane to get to one?
Besides, if one wants to make a thrill comparison in Southern Cali, it should be up against SFMM.
BTW-California Adventure needs more to it, they charge 30 dollars...the theming is great, but you can easily see there is all to see in a few hours.
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| 10/18/2007 9:21 AM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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Steven, here are some points. Disney projected the park would attract 7 million, not the 12-13 million that Disneyland attracts. The park has been under their projection, but still pulls in just under 6 million guests.
Fact, Disney's California Adventure had more rides and attractions when it opened than Disney's MGM Studios or Animal Kingdom when they opened.
Fact, the other gates in Orlando do not equal the attendance of the original Magic Kingdom either. In fact, if you do a comparison you can actually see that California Adventure may be performing at close to what should've been expected.
Fact, Disney has increased the average stay of an out-of-town visitor from one to two days since the addition of California Adventure.
Fact, Disney has eliminated the discounting of the single-day price to locals and increased their average visit from one to two days via a new promotion that offers two days for the price of one during selected seasons.
Fact, Disney commands one of the highest single day admission prices since many one-day visitors opt for a park hopper. In other words for the few guests who come for one day they're paying a significant premium(30% more) for the option to visit both parks. The one day park hopper was a genius idea since the operating costs of both parks are basically fixed.
Fact, Disney has significantly increased the number of annual passholders and raised the price of those passes as well. The premium pass price has increased by 75%!
Come on the TN article? That is copy and paste stuff. Go read the Disney press release. Go to the source for the information.
The 12 acre expansion is a significant expansion, since it will increase the park size by 21%! Isn't that an expansion?
However, this expansion really isn't new since it was planned to happen at some point in the park's future right from the beginning. I don't think overhaul is the correct word. If you want to use that word then you could apply it anytime a park decides to add a new attraction.
The park is getting a new entry plaza, and several new rides. The original cost you state of $1 billion included the Downtown Disney and Grand Californian hotel. The actual cost was $1.4 billion, but the cost to build the park portion was estimated to be around $700-800 million.
Was the park a finished product when it opened? Absolutely not. Did they anticipate that their would be future needs to expand the offerings? Absolutely. Could the park have been better? Yes.
My problem is with those who say it is a failure. It's a work in progress like Disneyland that will get better with age. However, it is not a failure.
So is it really out of necessity or further desire to expand the business at the Anaheim resort? So California Adventure is failing and at risk of closing? California Adventure is not a loosing proposition. If it were really a loss then Disney wouldn't invest a billion at once into this park.
Don't take me wrong. I'm very excited about the changes to Disney's California Adventure. New attractions and changes are always welcome, but I'm not surprised and I was well aware from the beginning that their would be changes and additions in the future. The entry plaza change is a welcome one, however if you look around at other portions of California Adventure you'll see that they're already rich in detail and full of theme.
Trust me, when these latest changes and additions are done and completed the critics still won't like this park. There is NOTHING that Disney can do to please them. They don't get it and they can't look at Disney's California Adventure as a separate park.
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| 10/18/2007 2:53 PM |
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BGWfanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1887
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If you are like me and are already tired of people complaining about what is happening, what will be happening, and what should be happening to DCA, you can read a nicely done recap of the announcement on www.miceage.com
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| 10/18/2007 2:54 PM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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MiceAge is not a reputable source. Al Lutz is one of the biggest complainers of all times and his whining really doesn't help improve matters at the park.
I'm going to give Lutz a little credit for writing something that doesn't include his usual annoying banter.
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| 10/18/2007 2:58 PM |
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BGWfanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1887
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All4thx, I have been to DCA along with every other Disney park in the country, and, IMO (Not Al Lutz opinion, not the critics opinion, not a message boards opinion), I found DCA to definitely be below disney standards.
Disney is definitely backtracking here, DCA is not performing as well as they hoped, Sure its still performing, but not as much as it could be. If it was, they wouldn't have to be completely redoing a good half of the park, including literally destroying the entire entrance area.
Theres a difference between just adding new attractions/ improving on old ones, and completely redoing a park. And in this case, disney is definitely doing the later.
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| 10/18/2007 10:11 PM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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BGWfanatic. I too have been to every Disney park in the US and Japan. I agree to some extent that DCA is not as in depth in terms of a theme, however it is not a failure. Also, they are not redoing half of the park. The entrance is the only area that is being really reworked. The change to Paradise Pier is minimal and more to bring the existing facade up to the design of the Midway Mania ride.
I will say that I would take DCA over the original Disney-MGM Studios or Animal Kingdom park any day. Those parks were rich in theme and detail, but lacked hardly anything to do when they opened. DCA had more attractions at opening, but less of the elaborate theme and detail to the actual facility. The new entrance should create a story and give reason for a "California" themed park. It will be a welcome addition since it was the one area of the park that really lacked.
I'm in agreement with Disney's assessment that the Anaheim resort has great potential for growth. I'm in agreement that more money should be spent on California Adventure to increase the attendance. There is no reason why in the next decade DCA should not be averaging attendance in the 10 million range. I don't agree that it is backtracking. I think it is part of the evolution of the park and the company. You need to look back in time to when DCA was approved. Disney was in a different situation, with a different management team. I think they got what they paid for and it was a profitable venture. The original projections may have been overstated or flawed. Remember they are projections or estimates based analysis, not guarantees. Now fortunately Disney is under the direction of a different management team and they're willing to pony up to grow the business even more.
Sure it's possible Disney could've spent enough to build the perfect park to begin with. However, then it would be an Islands of Adventure that is stale and way over due for a new attraction. I'd rather have the DCA course of new attractions and major enhancements along the way instead of sit idle for a decade with nothing new and no good reason to return.
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| 10/19/2007 2:48 AM |
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Dukeis#1
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 932
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All4thx, FYI you completely took my post out of context, but let me point out something else first.
For someone that seems to be bashing all the "Disney Dweebs" out there you are coming off as a pretty big one yourself.
So people don't think Disney did a good job with California Adventure, BIG DEAL. If you enjoy it then have at it. Seems as if you would be defending the company if they just parked some carnival rides in Disneyland's old parking lot and called that a theme park.
My real opinion is that if Disney was going to build a sister park next to Walt Disney's Disneyland, the KING of them all, they could have at least done something worthy of the property and tourist dollars instead of halfassed Six Flags Over Knott's Berry Farm. How WESTCOT or an American DisneySea got trashed for California Adventure is the biggest travesty in the history of the company.
I'll be the first to admit that some have gone overboard with dissing DCA, but C'MON, something went wrong with that park, and everyone (even the hardcore Mickey fanboys) has to admit it.
As for Disneyland becoming a "resort destination", well I can see the family dinner table discussions now - "OH YES, why should we go to Orlando, Hawaii, or the Caribbean for a week on our next vacation when we can spend two whole days in a suburb of Los Angeles!?!?"
The bottom line is that Disneyland will always be just a part of the big picture in that area, along with Universal City, SeaWorld, the whole Hollywood thing, etc. It will NEVER be the vacation destination that WDW is simply because there is too much to do in California besides *just* the small-scale Disneyland Resort. Heck, it's not is even all-inclusive.
A FUN FACT you forgot to mention: The majority of California Adventure's visitors are annual pass holders or multi-day ticket holders. That park simply does not have any appeal to anyone that can't get in at a bargain when the original Disneyland is right next door.
I suppose you can go ahead and mount an all-out war against me, but I'm done here. Have a good evening!
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| 10/19/2007 6:50 PM |
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all4thx
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 36
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I don't understand your "Six Flags Over Knott's Berry Farm" comment at all.
California Adventure is so above and beyond either of those parks.
If I were a Disney Dweeb then I would sit here like many of you and just complain about what a failure it is and close my eyes and ears to any other opinion about the park or facts of what it has accomplished for the Disneyland Resort. Had you read my post I do acknowledge that it could've been better, but most things don't start out perfect.
You want to know something. EPCOT sucks. Thank god that the WESTCOT idea was buried before it saw the light of day. As for DisneySea it was the project in Long Beach, California that never got off the ground because the California Coastal Commission is too difficult to deal with. Too bad, too.
Millions prove you wrong about Disneyland not being a resort destination. However, maybe I should tell my friends who are coming from New Jersey in December to spend five days at the Disneyland Resort that they're wasting their time. Oh, but this isn't their first trip either. They actually choose Disneyland Resort over Orlando and they're spending five days at the Disney property and four more days going elsewhere. I can't understand why they wouldn't choose WDW instead????
"NEVER be a resort destination." You're already eating crow for that line.
If it can't be a resort destination then why would the company spend so much money and put so much effort into expanding the place? What you're saying is that it will basically always be a failure. And the same rationale that you use can be said for WDW, that it is just one part of the big picture in that area, along with SeaWorld, Universal Orlando, Wet 'n Wild...
As for your fun fact my friend. Since when do multi-day ticket holders or annual passholders get thrown into a special group who don't count? Oh right, you're a Disney nerd and you've got special rules as to who counts for a paying guest.
BTW, the name is Richard, AKA Dick
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| 10/20/2007 6:38 AM |
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More about News
Oct. 17th, 2007 -- Since opening in 2001, Disney’s California Adventure has had problems drawing visitors like its neighbor Disneyland.